|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,636 |
"Scholars are not in agreement about the correct use and origin of this word."
"Gringo in Malaga, what they call foreigners who (have) a certain kind of accent which prevents their speaking Spanish with ease and spontaneity; in Madrid the case is the same, and for some reason, especially with respect to the Irish."
"Another instance of its early use is in Bustamante's 1841 edition of Francisco Javier Alegre's Historia de la Companis de Jesús en la Nueva España, in which he explains that the Spanish soldiers sent to Mexico in 1767 by Charles III were called gringos by the Mexican people."
Quotes from J.H. Coffman, Scottsdale, AZ in a letter to the editor in "Honduras This Week"
[scratching my head-e] Okay, so first they say it was a term used to describe people who couldn't pronounce Spanish because of their accents. Then they say it was used by the Mexicans when refering to Spanish soldiers.
I can totally see some Mexican soldiers making fun of the American soldiers, maybe even punning off Greek sexual habits, but I have to say that it seems that until the mid 1800's, gringo was not a word that was used much until the Mexicans started applying it to Americans.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
To go back in history, "welch" comes from a Germanic root meaning foreigner.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 618 |
From hazy high school memories:
Gaijin translates literally as "white man", but tends to be applied to anyone who is not Japanese parented, born and bred. It also carries with it the connotation of "outsider". While it is not always negative, and is often used in a friendly way similar to gringo, the Gaijin are (or at least were) often considered to be a lower class of citizen. It is highly unlikely that a Gaijin would reach upper management in a Japanese company, a high level in politics, or significant social standing outside the entertainment (including sports) industry. Being a Gaijin has been compared with being an African-American in the States.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Hiya, Hyla-chic! Welcome home! Missed you. I've been thinking, and I believe you must be right--we don't seem to have a generalized term for foreigners. (I like your phrase 'mutt nation', by the way.) 'Round these parts, anyway, they tend to be specific to the origin of the person or group. Quite often, here in Louisville, I hear the term 'refugee', but usually an adjective of the country of origin precedes it. Oh--alien, though its use is somewhat restricted.
I had an interesting experience the other day. I bought something from a kiosk vendor in the mall, and noticed the guy had an accent. I asked where he was from: Turkey. So I told him I had dated a Turkish guy at one time, and...it turned out that my old friend is a friend of this guy's older brother--the two had met in Miami, of all places. Small world.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Gaijin translates literally as "white man"I'm going to stick with "outside person" till I get firm evidence otherwise. I'm looking for evidence for. The official term is "other country person" gaikokujin, at least according to this site. http://lynne.50g.com/foreigner.html
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328 |
This reminds me of the little I know about the New England Puritans - don't they say something like this? I remember the movies with Harris Ford (Witness) and others whereby non-Puritans were referred to collectively as "the English."I don't know about Puritans, but the people in Witness were Amish. The Amish speak Pennsylvania Dutch, and call non-Amish "English" because of the language we speak, not because of a perceived difference in nationality. And that's Harrison Ford, by the way. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Roy Blount Jr., who when i googled him, seems better known for his humor than serious aritcles, did a serious article on Us vs. Them-- the generic cross cultural difficulties that exist in all groups.. but i couldn't find it.. (its from back before 1998--)
in any case, human are social, cultural animals.. and we naturally from into groups.. family is one, peer; (work, school, coffe klatch), teams, towns, counties, countries, language, what ever! most of know the Sherlock Holmes story The Red Headed League and the idea of an organization based on hair color is not total strange.. not to us, or to the characters in the story.
once we become a group, we begin to define ourselves.. and what makes our groups special -- ane how we are different (and unstated, but often believed, superiour to those outside our group.) those inside the group use special jargon, or code words, that helps seperate the wheat from the chaff-- YART comes to mind. and then most groups give their group a name that implies goodness and power-- no matter what they are really doing..
which lead the Nazi's to hold the belief, they were "purifying the german race" not begin racist and commiting genocide. -it almost impossible for us today to share their belief.-- even those who would rewrite history don't claim genocide is wrong, they just claim the nazi's never did it.
all term to define outsider are at least somewhat perjorative. if nothing else, they define someone as "them" and not as "Us". and since we in the Us group have already defined ourselves as slightly superiour, them, must be, inferiour.
i have avoided using a word that was made up-- to define the Us of regular contributers to the AWAD talk group.. because it is a classical example of a word used to define a group-- and its obscure origins serve to make sure that it can be used to seperate Us (long time regulars) from them.(new comers)
i see it as a racist and ugly a word, as ugly as many other words i will not use.
some here have objected to common, vulgar words, like shit-- and all the ilk of words defined as 4 letter words. i don't. but i share a strong aversion to words that serve to define anyone as "them". words to define the "Them"s of the world are worse than vulgar. they are deliberately hurtful.
PS. YART stand for "yet another rehashed topic" and is occationally used here at AWAD.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
Quite often, here in Louisville, I
hear the term 'refugee', but usually an adjective of the country of origin precedes it.Now, Jackie, our grandparents woulda said, "Damned Yankee"  to them furriners frum the north.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 428
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 428 |
Welcome back, Hyla! How's that little tadpole of yours? Growing legs yet?
This has been a great discussion so far -- especially of troy's comments about the "us vs. them" mentality. Here in Vermont, as I'm sure I've mentioned aBoard before, the distinction is between Woodchucks (natives) and Flatlanders (newcomers). Yep, that's where my handle is from Those terms are used (if at all -- they are becoming rare) very kiddingly these days, though perhaps it was not always so.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>"Damned Yankee" to them furriners frum the north....
a little farther to the south that becomes damned yanquis... and refers to US all, north and south.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,322
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
501
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
