Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#45550 10/23/01 01:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
I was struck by this word today, and began to wonder if it was derived from the bird or from some other source. I found this definition in Atomica:

rav·en·ous (răv'ə-nəs)
adj.
Extremely hungry; voracious.
Rapacious; predatory.
Greedy for gratification: ravenous for power. See synonyms at voracious.
[Middle English, from Old French ravineux, from raviner, to take by force, from Vulgar Latin *rapīnāre, from Latin rapīna, plunder. See rapine.]


This etymology, though sensible, doesn't quite satisfy me. I still think that the bird must be involved somehow! The OED definition of raven included this side note:

The common raven is easily tamed, but is mischievous and thievish, and has been popularly regarded as a bird of evil omen and mysterious character. (my emphasis)

Does anybody else think there might be a connection, or am I just out to lunch?



#45551 10/23/01 04:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
could be just one of those logostical coincidences. raven (the bird) seems to have Teutonic roots. (you could have just as easily emphasized easily tamed, but that wouldn't fit with ravenous I suppose :)


#45552 10/23/01 07:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
N
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
N
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
Rapine and the alternative Middle English spelling ravin suggest that association with the bird might have helped move to and fix the -e- spelling.

I think the Latin root rap- 'seize' is related to Greek harp- 'seize', as in the Harpies.

The Old English and Old Norse for the bird were hrafn, but the h is unrelated, coming from an earlier k.


#45553 10/23/01 11:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866
Chambers says:

raven/ravin/ravine: n, rapine: preying: prey (O.Fr. ravine, plunder-L. rapina-rapere, plunder, to sieze.)

Having the same Latin root works for me.

stales


#45554 10/23/01 01:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
stales says Having the same Latin root works for me.

Yeahbut©, raven¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/88/R0058800.html)
and
raven² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/89/R0058900.html)
are no more the same words than are
cleave¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/89/C0398900.html)
and
cleave² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/90/C0399000.html)
or
let¹ (http://www.bartleby.com/61/96/L0129600.html)
and
let² (http://www.bartleby.com/61/97/L0129700.html).


#45555 10/23/01 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
you could have just as easily emphasized easily tamed, but that wouldn't fit with ravenous I suppose :)

Exactly. I was indulging in a bit of decidedly unscholarly data-tweaking. Or selective reading, as the case may be.

Any excuse for a word thread, right Uncle Bill?




Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 444 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5