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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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<<If they'd had a calhoun...
script concept?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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But that's the horns of a dilemma. When South Carolina says in 1860 they want to quit the union, they are saying the US court system doesn't have jurisdiction. If they say it does have jurisdiction they admit that they are part of the union.
To return to another subthread about the conditions of Texas' statehood.
Texas was admitted under the following conditions:
Joint Resolution of the Congress of the United States, March 1, 1845
28th Congress Second Session
Begun and held at the city of Washington, in the District of Columbia, on Monday the second day of December, eighteen hundred and forty-four.
Joint Resolution for annexing Texas to the United States.
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That Congress doth consent that the territory properly included within, and rightfully belonging to the Republic of Texas, may be erected into a new state, to be called the state of Texas, with a republican form of government, to be adopted by the people of said republic, by deputies in Convention assembled, with the consent of the existing government, in order that the same may be admitted as one of the states of this Union.
2. And be it further resolved, That the foregoing consent of Congress is given upon the following conditions, and with the following guarantees, to wit:
First--said state to be formed, subject to the adjustment by this government of all questions of boundary that may arise with other governments; and the constitution thereof, with the proper evidence of its adoption by the people of said republic of Texas, shall be transmitted to the President of the United States, to be laid before Congress for its final action, on or before the first day of January, one thousand eight hundred and forty-six.
Second--said state, when admitted into the Union, after ceding to the United States all public edifices, fortifications, barracks, ports and harbors, navy and navy-yards, docks, magazines, arms, armaments, and all other property and means pertaining to the public defence belonging to said republic of Texas, shall retain all the public funds, debts, taxes, and dues of every kind which may belong to or be due and owing said republic; and shall also retain all the vacant and unappropriated lands lying within its limits, to be applied to the payment of the debts and liabilities of said republic of Texas; and the residue of said lands, after discharging said debts and liabilities, to be disposed of as said state may direct; but in no event are said debts and liabilities to become a charge upon the government of the United States.
Third--New states, of convenient size, not exceeding four in number, in addition to said state of Texas, and having sufficient population, may hereafter, by the consent of said state, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the federal constitution. And such states as may be formed out of that portion of said territory lying south of thirty-six degrees thirty minutes north latitude, commonly known as the Missouri compromise line, shall be admitted into the Union with or without slavery, as the people of each state asking admission may desire. And in such state or states as shall be formed out of said territory north of said Missouri compromise line, slavery, or involuntary servitude, (except for crime,) shall be prohibited.
3. And be it further resolved, That if the President of the United States shall in his judgment and discretion deem it most advisable, instead of proceeding to submit the foregoing resolution to the Republic of Texas, as an overture on the part of the United States for admission, to negotiate with that Republic; then, Be it resolved, that a state, to be formed out of the present Republic of Texas, with suitable extent and boundaries, and with two representatives in Congress, until the next apportionment of representation, shall be admitted into the Union, by virtue of this act, on an equal footing with the existing states, as soon as the terms and conditions of such admission, and the cession of the remaining Texan territory to the United States shall be agreed upon by the governments of Texas and the United States: And that the sum of one hundred thousand dollars be, and the same is hereby, appropriated to defray the expenses of missions and negotiations, to agree upon the terms of said admission and cession, either by treaty to be submitted to the Senate, or by articles to be submitted to the two Houses of Congress, as the President may direct.
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The Congress of the United States, by joint resolution, later provided as follows:
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of Texas shall be one, and is hereby declared to be one, of the United States of America, and admitted into the Union on an equal footing with the original states, in all respects whatever.
My conclusion:
Texas came into the US just like any other state except for the fact that it was a separate country. It has no special right to secede, though it could become five states instead of one, which would give it ten of 108 senators!
TdE
TEd
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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When South Carolina says in 1860 they want to quit the union, they are saying the US court system doesn't have jurisdiction
Naw. The State of South Carolina is in the Union (and under jurisdiction of the Federal court) until that court gives them permission to leave the Union. At that point it no longer matters who does or doesn't have jurisdiction over them.
may hereafter...be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission
But not required. They could split off the whole state except one little corner next to Louisiana (East Texas ain' hardly *real Texas anyway) and then not bother to join the Union.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
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until that court gives them permission to leave the Union
Isn't that the perq of the legislative body rather than the judiciary?
oh, yeah, I fergot you-all had now reversed the rules! who judges the judges....? [whistles]
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Isn't that the perq of the legislative body rather than the judiciary?
Well, duh! Do I have to lay out the whole scenario for you? Seufz! The SC state legislature (legislative branch) votes to consider secession from the Union. They appoint a lawyer (or, more likely assign the job to the state Attorney General {executive branch}) to argue the case before a Federal judge (judicial branch). As soon as they win they vote to finalize the Articles of Secession and go merrily on their way. Until the actual vote on the A of S they are still in the Union and subject to the Federal Court; after the secession they don't have anything to argue.
If the Federal Senate passes some law says cain't nobody secede, the state wishing to secede challenges the constitutionality of that law in federal court.
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