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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
Rumsfeld, 'the nation must prepare itself for the fight against terrorism'
In light of what Beliyouth and many others have been saying, I suggest that that fight should begin at home.
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Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
by: Doctor Spin has got it all wrong. one of our very own fundamentalists has it all worked out.
In an interview Thursday during religious broadcaster Pat Robertson’s TV program “The 700 Club,” Falwell blamed the devastation on pagans, abortionists, feminists, homosexuals, the American Civil Liberties Union and the People for the American Way.
“All of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say, ’You helped this happen,’” he said.
[file this under "Nothing is Simple"]
p.s. - Rev. Falwell apologized Monday, saying “In the midst of the shock and mourning of a dark week for America, I made a statement that I should not have made and which I sincerely regret,” He added: “I want to apologize to every American, including those I named.”
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
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In an interview Thursday during religious broadcaster Pat Robertson’s TV program “The 700 Club,” Falwell blamed the devastation on pagans, abortionists, feminists, homosexuals, the American Civil Liberties Union and the People for the American Way.
“All of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say, ’You helped this happen,’” he said.
And if Americans want to know the kind of distorted, illogical, venomous fundamentalist thinking that results in America being hated in so many, usually inconsequential and little heard-from parts of the world, well, just step right up and listen to the good Reverend. It's only surprising that he didn't take the opportunity to slip the knife into niggers, kikes, spics and dagos as well. Really, a surprising omission. Imagine including the ACLU and not the Jews. IP, you should feel slighted! Still, it's early days yet, isn't it?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>it's early days yet.
obviously not too early for finger-pointing.
"Nothing is Simple"
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Belligerentyouth, I have to publicly, not in a p.m., tell you that your posting of that series of diatribes was the most offensive thing I have ever read on this board or anywhere else on the net.
The article by Mr. Milne raises the question, why don't the firefighters and rescue workers think about why this might have happened to the U.S.A. There's a very simple answer to that. They are not like the god damned evil twisted people who committed this crime. They were raised in a country and society which values life and all that it affirms and in a nation which tries, however imperfectly, to promote that and which is founded on that. We do not live in a society which lives by hate, harbors grudges for decades, and which instills hate into its children every day. Our constitution does not call for the annihilation of our neigbors, as the PLO's does (and they want to be a sovereign state). I don't know who Mr. Milne is and don't care to know. He's obviously someone with an anti-American outlook and now takes the opportunity to vent it. Fuck him.
As for the other crap you included (no other word for it), I have never seen such a farrago of suppositions, outright lies, and off-the-wall theorizing. I can't imagine why you thought that worth sharing with us.
Pardon my way of expressing the above. I'm too angry to be polite.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 273 |
Bobyounbalt, did you think the article was anti-American? I thought that the writer was simply trying to get Americans to recognize that the hatred which generated the atrocities of last week had not sprung up out of nowhere. You said,
We do not live in a society which. . . harbors grudges for decades
Try telling that to Vietnam and Cuba.
The knowledge that millions of Americans still can't understand why US hegemony, and the means used to achieve it, has generated massive resentment in so many parts of the world means that "those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it." It is possible to despise the hateful, terrible crimes committed while recognizing the validity of some of the complaints made against the US. That was the thought that I took away from reading Mr Milne's article.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>3. Instigate automated fuel dump process to be triggered by ground control in emergency
mav, that still leaves a bit of a problem for a planeload of people (and where the plane comes down -- it won't always be in the middle of a farmer's field). a far, far better thing would be an auto-pilot controlled landing. and believe me, this technology will be available very soon.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Sorry, VC, I don't buy it.
Firstly, I don't know how you understand "hegemony", but dictionaries define it as leadership or domination. The U.S. is certainly "guilty" of leadership, but we haven't attained it by force. Actually, I believe most would agree with me that a hegemony generally connotes a forcible domination, like the British Empire, Third Reich, etc. While we have gotten ourselves into questionable campaigns like Vietnam, now almost universally viewed as a huge error, they were temporary and not intended to create a hegemony. In fact, our motives for what we did in Vietnam were to help the other countries in the area avoid being conquered by communist neighbors. You have a short memory or are too young to remember how that affair came about. The same is true of other "crimes" of which we are accused. Why do we support Israel? To create a hegemony over the Palestinians or the other Arabs? It may be partly to protect the sources of oil on which we are so dependent, but we're not the only ones who depend on it. We are perfectly capable of creating a hegemony by force in the Mid East (as demonstrated in the temporary hegemony we put up in the Iraq-Kuwait affair, which was for the purpose of rescuing a small state invaded by an aggressive neighbor), but as soon as the immediate purpose of it had been attained, we quit without even going to Damascus.
As to grudges, we don't really have them. I would think the Marshall Plan was proof of that. We sulked a good while, but we're back to relations with Vietnam and even starting to help them. Cuba is a somewhat different situation which has to do with domestic politics and all those Cuban voters in Florida, but it looks like we're going to resume relations in the not too distant future and most Americans are for that and have been for years.
But all this is really beside the point. You and others seem to be suggesting that resentment of American policies, successes, prosperity, investments in other countries, the spread of our ideas of democracy and equality in places where such notions are tabu, somehow justify what was done and that we deserve it. Why else even bring it up? Aside from the fact that these maniacs killed many other people besides Americans, as they must have known they would given the nature of the WTC. But you are implying that there was some kind of justice in it.
Along with nearly every American, I deeply resent the fact that certain Colombians and Asians are making incredible fortunes manufacturing and supplying dope to the U.S., which has a fearful effect here. No matter that if there weren't a market for it, the problem would vanish. The fact is that there is a market and there are those who are richer than some small countries from the dope trade. These people are the lowest kind of humanity. But according to your logic, not only are they personally guilty, but so are their countries since they are citizens of them, and therefore I have a perfect right to put together a plan to blow up crowded buildings or commit some other outrage like NY to "punish" the Colombians, Burmese, Thais, etc. who are making themselves a scourge to my country in particular and the world in general. Does that admittedly trifling and imperfect analogy suggest how false your position is?
This is my position: If a sneak attack by the armed forces of a state, a la Pearl Harbor, is unjustified whatever the provocation, if any, there is absolutely zero justification for any individual or group of individuals to commit an act which is designed to kill as many people as possible, inflict as much financial loss as possible, destroy symbolic places, and in general disrupt the national wellbeing and confidence. To repeat: SUCH ACTS CAN NOT BE JUSTIFIED. PERIOD. And if you start bringing up what the U.S. may have done (even if true), your only purpose has to be to attempt a justification, or just to take an opportunity for another anti-US diatribe. If the latter, it's despicable to do it now; it's like kicking someone who's already down. And that's why I found BY's post so offensive.
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Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Actually, I believe most would agree with me that a hege
Sorry, the server died in the middle of this one.
BYB, a hegemony is a specifically non-military influence. The US has a hegemonic influence over most of the Western world for economic reasons related partly to the vigour of its economy and also to its sheer size and leadership.
Nazi Germany had hegemony over Italy until 1943 (they were unequal allies), but for the most part was militarily dominant in the rest of Europe. The British Empire had dominion over Hong Kong and a hegemonic influence over southern China (think tea and opium) and the co-hong.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055 |
ByB writes : He's obviously someone with an anti-American outlook and now takes the opportunity to vent it. Fuck him.
I think the writer of the article expresses strong misgivings about America's foreign policies, but that does not mean he is anti-American - no doubt he has close ties to many Americans.
Just because someone expresses opinions regarding the international and historical situation within which these acts occurred, in order to make some sense of the current position it does not mean that some justification of the crimes has been attempted. Rather than offering some treacle about a 'faceless coward' as if these attacks occurred within some vacuum, one should try to forge positive steps (i.e. not military action) which can be taken to alleviate the hopeless disparities at present.
I don't think I live in the same world in which the perpetrator's supportors live, but I can *try to understand what they *might feel like - that's not wrong, Bob.
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