Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#4071 07/16/00 06:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
W
william Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
W
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
how many tenses are there in the english language?
and what are they?
what counts as a tense?
are imperative, passive and modal forms considered tenses?
having been thinking about this it seems you can only make two tenses with a verb, past and present, unless you add an auxiliary verb to a participle.


#4072 07/17/00 04:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Tense -- a change in the form of a verb to show, among other things, time reference. Therefore English has two tenses, past and present.

Aspect -- speaker's/hearer's viewpoint with regard to the action of a verb. English has simple, progressive (aka continuous), perfect, and perfect progressive (aka perfect continous) aspects. The aspects combine with tenses to make e.g. present perfect continous.

NB. These are linguistic features, not part of the real world. Thus, what we call past tense for convenience's sake does not have to relate to past time, e.g. It's time we were going. , refers to present time rather than past time despite the past tense form were

Voice -- active v. passive

Mood -- indicative v. imperative v. interrogative

As the question of how many tenses ran and ran in the magazine "English Today" I don't expect everyone will agree with the above.

PS I remember once seeing a cartoon of a couple in a travel agent's saying "Somewhere with no irregular verbs please."

Bingley


Bingley
#4073 07/17/00 08:14 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
R
addict
Offline
addict
R
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
> Tense -- a change in the form of a verb to show, among other things, time reference. Therefore English has two tenses,
past and present.

Excuse me for pointing out the blatantly obvious but isn't there a future tense? I seem to remember one being taught to me at school. Also, most schoolchildren will be familiar with writing lines as punishment. 'I will not talk in class' etc. etc. ad nauseum. Past? Present? I think not!! Definitely future!


#4074 07/17/00 08:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Will is certainly one way of talking about the future, but is it a future tense?

Will is a modal verb rather than a change in the form of the verb itself, as in write - wrote , which is how I would define a tense.

Why choose will as the future tense rather than for example is going to ?
I'm going to visit my aunt at the weekend refers to the future.
"Who can that be at this time of night?" "Oh, that will be Candi. He said he was coming round." , and She will drive too fast, even though I've told her often enough to slow down do not refer to the future.

Bingley


Bingley
#4075 07/17/00 11:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Sure, English has a future tense. It's not synthetically constructed, as are the present and the simple past, but that doesn't make it any less of a tense. I think we are confusing superficial construction here with deep meaning.
I agree with the grammar folks who say English in fact has a total of six tenses: the past perfect, simple past, present, present continuous, future and future perfect.
And as for Bingley's example "It's time we were going" I submit that "were" in that phrase is not in the past tense, it is in the subjunctive mood. As it were


#4076 07/17/00 12:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
J
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
J
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Websters seem to go for 3 simple, 3 perfect and 6 progressive variations.

When I did Latin we spent ages on "pluperfect" for example "I wish I were king" - I'm not sure where that fits in. As for subjunctives - that's all lost in haze!

SIMPLE TENSES
Present
Past
Future

PERFECT TENSES
Present perfect
Past perfect
Future perfect

PROGRESSIVE
TENSES
Present progressive
Past progressive
Future progressive
Present perfect progressive
Past perfect progressive
Future perfect progressive

http://webster.commnet.edu/HP/pages/darling/grammar/tenses/tense_frames.htm


#4077 07/17/00 04:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
W
william Offline OP
enthusiast
OP Offline
enthusiast
W
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 200
"will" is certainly always listed as the standard future tense, along with "be going to". but aren't they just present tense used for the future? is "might" also future? it certainly refers to the future.
i'm also wondering where a construction like "i am to go" comes in. the auxiliary is simple present and the verb is infinitive. what's that called?



#4078 07/17/00 10:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Thanks, Jo.... I wrote my post way too fast early this morning and am not going to go back and correct it in the hope that no one but you and William saw it ... I forgot to include present perfect. That would make a total of seven common tenses. But still yes, I agree with you and your source, we have all those tenses (continuous = progressive). Doesn't matter how they are constructed - each refers to a different time frame and therefore must be considered a tense. Now, I thought pluperfect was the same as past perfect ... and your example "I wish I were king" was subjunctive mood. Homework time.....

Has anyone ever studied the Hopi language? No tenses at all.

William, again it doesn't really matter how the future tense is constructed, it exists as a tense. "Might" is a modal and not properly a tense (getting a headache now). I'd like to hear from one of our German-speaking interlocutors on this. That language has is all sorted out.


#4079 07/17/00 10:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
J
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
J
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Mmmm does pluperfect only mean Past perfect?? I'm sure you are right but my Latin teacher made it sound so-ooo much more complicated than that!

Yes I think "wishing .." was subjuctive something or other. Thanks for clearing that up.

Unfortunately we were the first year of a new Latin syllabus which aimed to bring the subject "to life". Unfortunately they forgot that part of the whole reason to learn Latin was to understand a very ordered grammatical system. They discarded "nominative" and "vocative" (amo, amas, amat .. ) and talked about "form a" and "form b". In effect they threw the baby out with the bathwater and we were totally confused. I did learn a lot about the rude bits of Catullus though, so there were compensations.


#4080 07/17/00 11:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
>>Unfortunately we were the first year of a new Latin syllabus which aimed to bring the subject "to life".<<

Sounds like my "New Math" scars....

As for Catullus and - Ovid - I had to discover those guys on my own.
Congratulations, (I think) on your transition from an enthusuast to an addict, Jo.


Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 444 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5