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#34574 07/04/01 09:26 AM
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I don't think any non-u.s.ns care, but for the others, happy Independence day.
[I should have gotten some of uncle Jim's fireworks emoticon.]


#34575 07/04/01 01:27 PM
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Dear jimthedog: It is too much to expect that other countries should pay any attention to our holidays, since we pay so little to theirs. I wonder what the world would be like if the US had not gained its independence. I suspect the US would be just a struggling ex-commonwealth.


#34576 07/04/01 01:50 PM
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It is too much to expect, and I'm not expecting it. Didn't I say that non-Americans could ignore it in the 1st post, or
was I too vague?




#34577 07/04/01 02:33 PM
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Happy independence day from a non-u.s.!

What does the 225 in the subject mean?.

Spain national holiday is October 12 but I'm a little like Brassens sang in "La mauvaise réputation".

Le jour du Quatorze Juillet
Je reste dans mon lit douillet.
La musique qui marche au pas,
Cela ne me regarde pas.



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Happy Independence Day all US folks.
Here's a question from the old Trivia game :
"what are the opening words of the Declaration of Independence." (answer below)

On a major network --- the one that has Good Morning America --- tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time they are having celebrities *read* the Declaration.
Should be interesting as the document was written to be read aloud to inspire the people to support independence from England.
I happened to know the opening words as a copy of the Declaration was posted on a classroom wall right next to where I sat and, a compulsive reader even then, I read and re-read it ...

When, in the course of human events ...
For the full text :
http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/declaration/declaration.html

A good day to take the time ...


#34579 07/04/01 02:41 PM
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juanmaria pregunta: What does the 225 in the subject mean?

That would be the age of the country assuming July 4, 1776 as the birthday.

What did Dr. Bill mean by 224?




#34580 07/04/01 02:55 PM
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224 was the way the post read at first.Sly jimthedog must have edited it. I wasn't sure what it referred to.


#34581 07/04/01 02:59 PM
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Happy Independence Day. And thanks to juanmaria for his well wishes for our national birthday.

My boys did sparklers last night, and my husband set off a few small fireworks. Rob's review was, "sparklers are noisy." I guess I can quit worrying about him blowing his fingers off playing with M80s.


#34582 07/04/01 03:01 PM
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224 was the way the post read at first

Ahh! The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese! Once again one of life's little lessons learned anew.


#34583 07/04/01 03:36 PM
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There is a book just out - the title is either What You Were Never Taught in American History - or- What You Never Learned in American History ... it was a brief blurb on TV and I can't recall the author's name, if I even heard it ... It sounded interesting, what little I heard. Anyone read it?


#34584 07/04/01 04:21 PM
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224 was actually my 2nd edit. The first time I accidentally dated from when the Constitution was adopted, and then I forgot about it being 2001, and lost a year. And then my da, on the radio, said 225, so I changed it to that.


#34585 07/04/01 05:54 PM
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In a Smithsonian Magazine almost a year ago there was an article about George Mason, whom the history books for reasons unknown have not given the honor he deserves. It is worth looking up if you haven't read it. It is available online.
http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues00/may00/mason.html



#34586 07/04/01 06:03 PM
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I was going to start a new thread to celebrate July 4, but since our young history buff got this one going, I'll take advantage of it.

I wanted to draw attention, especially to non-USns, to some of the great language usage which has been demonstrated in our national documents and historical statements. We Americans should be familiar with this, and no doubt many others are as well, even though they probably haven't been made to study (and in some cases, memorize) them.

The Declaration of Independence, to which there is a link above, has some really fine prose. The opening is great, but followed as it is with the litany of King George's offenses, tolling like a great bell, it attains a solemn majesty unparalleled in political literature. Then follows the extension of the responsibility for the Revolution to the rest of the British people, concluding, sadly but sweetly in a rare rhetorical construction known as a chiasmus, "We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends."

Then there is this passage from George Washington's farewell address (not a speech -- it was published in writing) in which he announced that he would not be a candidate for a third term as President and gave his farewell remarks to the nation:

"In looking forward to the moment, which is intended to terminate the career of my public life, my feelings do not permit me to suspend the deep acknowledgement of that debt of gratitude, which I owe to my beloved country, for the many honors it has conferred upon me; still more for the stedfast confidence with which it has supported me; and for the opportunities I have thence enjooyed of manifesting my inviolable attachment, by services faithful and persevering, though in usefulness unequal to my zeal. If benefits have resulted to our country from these services, let it always be remembered to your praise, and as an instructive example in our annals, that under circumstances in which the Passions, agitated in every direction, were liable to mislead, amidst appearances sometimes dubious, vicissitudes of fortune often discouraging, in situations in which not unfrequently want of success has countenanced the spirit of criticism, the constancy of your support was the essential prop of the efforts, and a guarantee of the plans by which they were effected. Profoundly penetrated with this idea, I shall carry it with me to my grave, as a strong incitement to unceasing vows that Heaven may continue to you the choicest tokens of its beneficence -- that your union and brotherly affection may be perpetual -- that the free Constitution, which is the work of your hands, may be sacredly maintained -- that its administration in every department may be stamped with wisdom and virtue -- that, in fine, the happiness of the people of these States, under the auspices of liberty, may be made complete, by so careful a preservation and so prudent a use of this blessing, as will acquire to them the glory of recommending it to the applause, the affection, and adoption of every nation, which is yet a stranger to it."


Of course, any mention of American historical prose has to include Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, rightly admired as a magnificent piece of prose. Another effort of Lincoln's, not as well known but also a remarkable demonstration of saying much in few words, is the following letter:

"Executive Mansion, Washington, November 21, 1864

Mrs. Bixby, Boston Massachusetts:

Dear Madam: I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant-General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any words of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering to you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.
Yours very sincerely and respectfully,
ABRAHAM LINCOLN"


Anyone else want to contribute a favorite?


#34587 07/04/01 06:46 PM
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Dear Bob: The passages you quote are part of our heritage we can be proud of. I wonder if George III ever wrote anything worth comparing.


#34588 07/05/01 09:01 AM
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I've never understood why the British don't celebrate 4 July as much as the Americans

Who says we don't? But with the British being so reserved it is very difficult to know when we are celebrating. Maybe an extra sugar lump in our 4 o'clock tea, and an extra 1/2" of hankerchief showing in our breast pocket. None of this over the top stuff for us. But I hope you all had a good one.

On writings, yesterday I came across a mention of Richard Price and a very long title of a book suporting the American Independence yesterday. (In a book on the history of Risk Management!)
Edit The title is "Observations on the Importance of the American Revolution and the Means of Making it a Benefit to the World". So, did we manage the second bit yet?End Edit
I googled and didn't find it but I did find this by him, which although a bit later, captures the mood:
"Why are the nations of the world so patient under despotism? Why do they crouch to tyrants, and submit to be treated as if they were a herd of cattle? Is it not because they are kept in darkness, and want knowledge? Enlighten them and you will elevate them. Shew them they are men, and they will act like men. Give them just ideas of civil government, and let them know that it is an expedient for gaining protection against injury and defending their rights, and it will be impossible for them to submit to governments which, like most of those now in the world, are usurpation's on the rights of men, and little better than contrivances for enabling the few to oppress the many." Richard Price, November 4, 1789 from A Discourse On The Love of Our Country.

Rod



#34589 07/05/01 12:00 PM
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with the British being so reserved it is very difficult to know when we are celebrating

Right, this from a bunch that dance around wearing the antlers of a creature that has been extinct in England for several thousand years.

http://www.penda.org.uk/abbots_bromley_horn_dance.htm


#34590 07/05/01 07:23 PM
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Watched Charlie Rose interview David McCulloch last night
on McCulloch's new book "John Adams". McCulloch mentioned that we tend to visualize the founding fathers as stereotyped figures, knee britches, lace at the cuff, etc. He said that after his research he now has a memory of two men on horseback in a desolate landscape on a bitter New England February day with snow on the ground ... he said the men were John Adams and his friend Mr. Shoemaker who went along to keep Adams company and to return the two horses to Quincy Mass where Adams lived. They were starting the four hundred mile ride to Philadelphia for the Continental Congress. "They were tough men" McCullough said. He said he would be hard put to think of anyone who would be willing to ride forty miles on horseback these days, to get to a meeting of congress, let alone four hundred!
Gives one a new perspective.
I think I will buy that book.



#34591 07/05/01 09:11 PM
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Many consider this the finest poem ever written in tribute to American Independence:

CONCORD HYMN
Sung At the Completion of the Battle
Monument, July 4, 1837

by Ralph Waldo Emerson

By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard round the world.

The foe long since in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps;
And Time the ruined bridge has swept
Down the dark stream which seaward creeps.

On this green bank, by this soft stream,
We set to-day a votive stone;
That memory may their deed redeem,
When, like our sires, our sons are gone.

Spirit, that made those heroes dare
To die, and leave their children free,
Bid Time and Nature gently spare
The shaft we raise to them and thee.

(2nd 4th lines of each stanza indent 3 spaces)





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#34593 07/06/01 11:19 AM
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I've always thought that America was lucky to survive its first few years after independence given the political naivety of its politicians. That it did so is probably due more to the constituency's forebearance than because the politicians got it right.

George Washington, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were not particularly clever politicians. However, they were all intellectually extremely astute and I think that this somehow made up for their lack of real identification with "the man in the street" and an understanding of how to woo "him".

The Sedition Act was a blatant piece of political chicanery, nominally aimed at the French, but squarely fired at the Republicans. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why Adams thought that it would do any good. He had made so many other "good" decisions in his life. I suspect lobbyists, personally.

Nevertheless, after the tumultuous years following independence, for the most part his presidency was the antidote which America clearly needed.

Spending July 4 in the US was interesting!



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