Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
#32840 06/21/01 07:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Bob what i see is that PR's have very different social values than Domincans, and Domincans have different values than Cubans, and so on, and so on..

Some groups work very hard to become assimilated, to learn english, others, learn english, but still tend to live in "ethnic enclaves" and keep social values, and other still, don't learn english, and don't share A/S, J/C social values.. so i find it difficult to see hispanic's as a group, but rather see Dominicans, or Colombians, or Filipino's, or Mexicans.. They have different music, different cultures, different values.. (just as an Irish man and a German might agree on Beer and cabbage, but not on religion (lutherian vs catholic)) and an Irishman and an italian might agree on religion -- but not on garlic or beverage (wine vs. beer)..

Irish, German, Italian-- all european.. But does european does mean, as it sometimes taken to -- Cosmopolitan and cultured or does it just means from europe?

Hispanics often has almost nothing in common -- except Spanish as their mother tongue.. so it's a meaning less term-- and to say that "the Spanish speaking population is growing faster, and will become the majority by 2050"-- is meaningless.. if you said that "Catholic Mexican's would be, not only the largest minority, but actually a plurality by 2050"-- well that would have some significant political and cultural fall out...

The first (red)statement in the above paragraph is meaningless, since it is based on projected growth from a spanish speaking population of today-- but some of that population won't even have spanish speaking children, let alone spanish speaking grandchildren.. and the only vestage of their "hispanic" heritage will be a holiday or two, a dish or two, and a "Hispanic" last name--

The japanese have different names for first generation (not born in japan) and second generation (not born in japan) and don't even consider ethnic japanese of the third generation to be "Japanese" -- the irish have their "lace curtain irish" who's only evidence they are irish is a name like Kennedy or O'Malley.

But some groups, because of geography, and because of certain cultural values (not saying good or bad, just values) tend to remain less assimilated into the melting pot-- even to the point of not learning english... even when that has negitive effects on their earning power.

An other NY times report pointed out that rather than becoming intragrated, neighborhoods in NY are becoming more ethnic-- and i know mine is-- i chose it intentionally because it was so mixed-- when my children where in school, 30 different languages spoken at home (from a school population of c. 300) --now, while the neighborhood in many ways still has diversity, but - 40% of the student in the same school, (school population c. the same) come from a home where one asian language is spoken.. (take your pick-- or if you know Flushing NY-- you know the answer)

I don't mind-- (i got what i wanted for my kids)-- and the "change" is not a negitive one in most aspects-- since housing prices in area mean almost all new comer have to have mega buck$ to move in.

I admit it, i am prejudiced, i like having rich neighbors who drive up the value of my house, and in effect make me richer..and i wouldn't care if they where 1 horned, 1 eyed, purple-people eaters, so long as i got richer(--after all i'm not a purple-person!)


#32841 06/21/01 08:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear of troy: do you ever these days hear the old NY lament "There goes the neighborhood!"


#32842 06/22/01 01:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Yes, Dr. Bill-- its being heard in Harlem now-- as all the dot com millionairs go looking for good housing in Manhattan-- all the old neighborhoods on east side and west side have been bought up.. and they are discovering great housing in Harlem--

Harlem, like some other long standing black communities was a ghetto (a segragated community) but it was never a slum-- (though it did have some "slummy" parts.) Now whites are buying up the old brownstones, and renovating them.. and local blacks are compalining-- its changing the nature of the community!

Its funny how what goes around comes around.. Long Island North shore (where i live, in the queens part) was part of the underground railroad-- the local quaker churches were stations, and every two or three miles, there is a long standing black community.. Spinny hill, one community has been "devistated" by rising property values... the families find they can sell there house for so much money-- (and retire in ease else where)-- that the neighborhood is being destroyed... the homes are being ripped down, and office and shopping is going in..

It a double edged sword-- Shouldn't the owner get every penny they can for there old house? but if they do-- the house gets ripped down, and the community is smaller...


#32843 06/22/01 05:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
B
veteran
Offline
veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
The problem of rising values in homes and their being bought up so they can be torn down is not confined to urban areas. Farmland is disappearing in so many places it will be a wonder if there is any left by 2050. It is so difficult to make a living consistently at farming that developers don't have a lot of trouble most of the time buying up farms to build housing developments. This, of course, not only ruins the landscape but results in problems with drainage and runoff, more roads having to be built, along with more schools, etc. We have a program here in Maryland whereby a farm owner can place his property in a sort of trust which allows him to continue to occupy and farm it for his lifetime, but it can't thereafter be sold; it remains green space. He gets tax breaks and other incentives to allow him to get by financially even in case of drought, crop failure, and the other normal perils of farming. Unfortunately, rarely taken advantage of.


#32844 06/22/01 10:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
J
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
farming

Are Kansas and Nebraska this way as well? The last time I saw any pictures of them they were still pretty flat and farmy. And from personal experience I know that north-western Ohio is still almost entirely farm land.

I think farming is becoming more of a commercial business now than a personal endeavor. Fewer people want to be farmers, but there are also new technologies that make it possible for one person or a computerized machine to farm a huge area in much less time than previous eras. This makes it possible for companies to run farms instead of a single person devoting his life to it. America's farms produce enough to feed the world and then some, so I don't think we have to worry too much about a losing food, just losing the nice countrysides and persona of the farmer.


#32845 06/23/01 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
One reason a lot of dairy farms are no longer family run is the fact that vacations are impossible. A joke among dairymen is the the only difference between being in jail and on a dairy farm is that in jail you don't have to milk cows.


Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
W
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
I was born in Lowell, Mass, and received my early newspaper training there.
Lowell, one of the most famous Mill Towns (Now a National Park and well worth a visit) was home to a variety of ethnicities. Yankee, Irish, French, Germans and up through the 1960s, home to the largest community of Greeks in the nation. There were also smaller communities of other ethnicities.
All mixed and merged -- and yet retained their individualistic national languages. Now, there is an influx of Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees struggling to find a place in the city's society, *and learning English apace.

A friend of mine has a brother who is a very highly placed exec in a multi-national in Sweden. As I recall, he said that Sweden used to require all to learn the language in order to live and work there. Then a sea change occurred and the requirement was changed. He said the change was not good. "Disasterous" I think was his word. He also said "In this case, (learning the language) America got it right."
Anyone from Sweden on the Board who can comment on this and correct or amplify my recollection?

In years past, the US government promoted assimilation by forbidding use of other languages. Witness the proscription on speaking in a Native American or Hawaiian or Native Alaskan language. Today there is a resurgence in those languages ... in Hawaii Punana Leo is an example where youngsters (ages 4 to 12) learn Hawaiian and teachers have found those same children do better in English Language skills than the children who speak just English.

You can go to any country live there for a lifetime, learn the language, customs, and still be a foreigner ... here you can be an American regardless of where you were born.
Have no unalterable opinion except to say that English/American has bound us together all these years.




#32847 06/25/01 07:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
B
veteran
Offline
veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
In reply to:

losing the nice countrysides and persona of the farmer



I suppose, Jazz, that like me you are a city boy and haven't met a great many farmers. I dare say that, like other people, there are farmers and there are farmers. But when it comes to the ones who are in farming as a business, I have to agree with H.L. Mencken that they are among the most execrable people in the world, since they are forever whining and complaining. If it's too dry the farmers are crying about drought, and if it's too wet they whine about too damp. The weather is never right for farmers and you get sick and tired of hearing them complain.


#32848 06/25/01 07:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
It used to be that to be a farmer all you needed was a strong back. But today's farmers have to be good business men, and able to evaluate a lot of scientific publications and complicated legislation. Then comes the hard work.
I don't think farmers complain any more than other businessmen.

P.S. As an example of the crap farmers have to put up with from idiotic politicians, early in WWII, farmers had to get permission to slaughter steers. One farmer applied to slaughter a hundred steers. He got back a letter giving him permission to slaughter fifty, but requiring him "to keep fifty for breeding purposes." Need I explain the risibility of that?


#32849 06/25/01 07:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
J
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
J
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
We used to have cattle, and they got away quite a bit (not as much as the sheep we had one year, though.) Being about one and a half years old, I thought it was fun, the one time I remember them getting away, but my parents didn't like it. The cattle were better than the sheep in more than one way: the cattle always went up the hill on the road, but the sheep went anywhere they wanted when they excaped. So I'd say that if cow farming caused complaints, all farmers can complain. Anyway, if it rains too much, that's just as bad.


Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 442 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5