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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 3 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 … 10 11 Go to page... Re: "Anchorite" demonstrative quote #30772 06/11/01 12:44 PM 06/11/01 12:44 PM Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 69 IL B Bryan Hayward OP journeyman Bryan Hayward   OP journeyman B Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 69 IL I find it amazing that such statements "trouble" someone. If one looks at the history of Christianity, most of what makes a Christian a Christian lies in articles of faith (cf Nicene, Apostle's, and Anathasian Creeds) and those are supposed to be held, no matter what logic, evidence, or argument is used. Essentially, to argue that your "faith" is modified by evidence is to destroy the meaning of faith, to water it down to nothing. Jesus refused because faith is not meant to be tested (that is what you do with evidence). You have faith, you don't test it to see if it works. You hold it in the face of all opposition. Paul's evidence was that of his own enlightenment, the personal revelation/vision made to him. That is the basis of his faith. The type of faith required by Christianity (and most other religions) has indeed been differentiated by priests and theologians. Followers using that same paradigm would look like fools in the practical world. Likewise, these same theologians do not want the tools of skepticism used by followers on the tenets of their religion. The semantic difference between "blind" faith and "healthy" faith is that "blind" faith applies to anything anyone says, whereas "healthy" faith applies only to what legitimate ecclesiastical authorities say. These same authorities will tell you that you've made the right decision if your faith and the evidence you have point you in the direction of belief and obedience. They will tell you that you need more faith if your evidence leads you to a different conclusion. In this case, they are not talking about faith modified by evidence (confidence) but faith in spite of evidence (belief without evidence). My entire point still stands. To use the term "faith" when you really mean "confidence" waters down faith to nothing. If you have faith, you believe, and that settles it. If you have confidence, then your belief is variable with the quality, quantity, and type of evidence you constantly receive. Cheers, Bryan Cheers, Bryan You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be. #30773 06/11/01 08:26 PM 06/11/01 08:26 PM Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 3,409 M Max Quordlepleen Carpal Tunnel Max Quordlepleen   Carpal Tunnel M Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 3,409 Then why? #30774 06/11/01 10:02 PM 06/11/01 10:02 PM Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 69 IL B Bryan Hayward OP journeyman Bryan Hayward   OP journeyman B Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 69 IL Why use the word "faith" at all? Why not use "belief" or "religion"? Why this emphasis on the word "faith" when you don't mean it? There has to be a reason why the word "faith" is so important to you in a religious context, when you obviously are using it in the non-religious sense. I suppose I should give up on this - language doesn't necessarily make sense. Yet I can't escape the feeling it is more important than just another minor linguistic anomaly. It is a word with very strong connotations. It is an important word. Yet it seems people try to dilute it. I just don't understand why. Bryan Cheers, Bryan You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be. #30775 06/11/01 10:25 PM 06/11/01 10:25 PM Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 3,409 M Max Quordlepleen Carpal Tunnel Max Quordlepleen   Carpal Tunnel M Joined: Aug 2000 Posts: 3,409 Re: Then why? #30776 06/12/01 09:39 AM 06/12/01 09:39 AM Joined: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,757 M maverick Carpal Tunnel maverick   Carpal Tunnel M Joined: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,757 Ever the gracious faith-saver, Max Indeed. #30777 06/12/01 11:57 AM 06/12/01 11:57 AM Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 69 IL B Bryan Hayward OP journeyman Bryan Hayward   OP journeyman B Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 69 IL I can take a hint. I guess this is why it is impolite to talk religion and politics - terms are too slippery. Didn't mean to make waves - I am new, so I didn't know that such topics were politely ignored. Indeed, we can agree to disagree - a civilized thing to do. Cheers, Bryan Cheers, Bryan You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be. Re: Indeed. #30778 06/12/01 01:04 PM 06/12/01 01:04 PM Joined: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,757 M maverick Carpal Tunnel maverick   Carpal Tunnel M Joined: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,757 Personally, I'll be sad if we ever rule off such areas as completely beyond discussion - this thread spawned some interesting langauge issues. All the time we can keep from shouting at one another, I think we are doing OK - and you two have, I think, managed to disagree without unpleasantness (crucifriction?), so congratulations. Re: Indeed. #30779 06/12/01 02:06 PM 06/12/01 02:06 PM Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 5,400 rego park of troy Carpal Tunnel of troy   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 5,400 rego park yes-- like good company everywhere, we try to stay away from politics and religion... On the other hand-- we haven't gone all PC-- and while we don't go around insulting each other-- Pom, Ozzie, 'merkin and other slightly rude term are freely used. and if you get too free with your words-- the gutter police will track you down-- the real trick is to be very clever-- and then, no matter how riske your words-- we will chuckle before we blush.. and all will be fine. Or we will groan, and say--I wish I thought of that! There are some who race to be the first with a witty bon mot or pun. Most of us aren't too thin skinned-- or short tempered... we will firmly agree to disagree.. I am sure you've have a welcome from the welcome wagon-- Jackie heads it up.. but all of us welcome you. my other obsession Re: Indeed. #30780 06/12/01 09:16 PM 06/12/01 09:16 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 13,858 W wwh Carpal Tunnel wwh   Carpal Tunnel W Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 13,858 Pom, Ozzie 'merkin and other slightly rude term are freely used. Forgive me for bringing it up again, but, please, why not "merikin" ??????? FAITH, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. Re: Indeed. #30781 06/12/01 10:09 PM 06/12/01 10:09 PM Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 618 Australia D doc_comfort addict doc_comfort   addict D Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 618 Australia As much as it pains me to question the great OT, shouldn't 'riske' be 'risque'? Page 3 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 … 10 11 Go to page... Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------   Information and announcements   Q&A about words   Wordplay and fun   Words and languages in schools   Miscellany   Weekly Themes   Looking for (writers, speakers, ...) (Old) Weekly themes. 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