|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>So how come we don't have have ambigus instead of buffets?
the short answer is that ambigu went obsolete (and didn't mean exactly the same thing) before buffet table/meal/supper/party was shortened to buffet meaning the refreshments themselves rather than where they were laid out.
ambigu - An entertainment at which the viands and dessert are served together; or at which a medley of dishes are set on.
and with regard to transmogrify, OED says "origin uncertain", but has this [Note. If the original form was (as suggested in quot. 1725) transmigrafy, this may have been a vulgar or uneducated formation in -fy from transmigure, or transmigrate v. (cf. transmigration 3b). Apparently, it was originally persons that were ‘transmografied’, or metamorphosed.]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
and FWIW, traditional country-house English would never entertain a fearsome Froggy ambiguity like buffet when the solid vernacular of sideboard would do, doncha know old bean? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
A long time ago, I had an invitation to a collation, but did not attend so cannot describe it, but it was evidently a light meal. So I cannot compare it to a buffet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
In reply to:
As to what is served how, I have read that in the 19th century it was customary at dinner to have almost everything that was to be served on the table at once and the diners served themselves and passed the plates around. This was called, I believe, Continental or French service. It was replaced in the last couple decades of the century by Russian service, which was to have the various courses succeed one another and served by the butler/footmen/maids who presented platters to each guest in turn, who helped themselves, leaving no platters on the table. This, of course, has become standard restaurant service.
To expand on Bobyoungbalt's summary:
The four types of service are French, Russian, American (known to the English as English) and Restaurant.
In French service, huge numbers of dishes are set out in symmetrical patterns on the dining table, and guests help themselves and one another from what they find within reach. This was standard until the late nineteenth century, and is perhaps still manifest in modified form as buffet.
In Russian service, which replaced the French, food is arranged on platters which are taken around to the seated guests, who serve themselves. More on service a la Russe later.
In American service, a nod is still given to the old ritual of personally carving for one's guests, after inquiring about the preferences of each guest. If the vegetables are also put on the plate by the host, and everyone passes the plates down the table, it is "family style." If servers do it, it is formal.
In Restaurant service, food is placed in predetermined portions and selections on plates before they are brought to the table. It is a service of efficiency only and has no formal table service pedigree.
Now, as to service a la Russe, if you want a really formal dinner, this is the way to go. All formal dinner invitations and responses must be on paper - no phones, no faxes, no Emails. There should be seating charts in the hallway which the guests may study, cards with each lady's name in a little envelope bearing the name of the gentleman who is her dining partner, and place cards on the table. The charts and cards permit the guests to fake remembering each other, and to avoid their dining partners before dinner (so they haven't talked each other out before the main event). [pop quiz: who knows what I mean when I refer to the hostess turning the table?] There should be menu cards on the table, and real traditionalists will insist that they be in French. The centerpiece should be of flowers and candles, on white or offwhite linen, with small dishes of candy and fruit strategically and symmetrically placed. Guests should be announced upon arrival, and dinner served (or, as the butler should say, "Madam is served") 20 minutes after the arrival time. There should be footmen and identical platters for each four to six guests.
The place setting for each guest is a "cover," and consists of a service plate (a charger), all the flatware except for dessert (up to three pieces of each type of utensil), and stemmed glasses for water and two or three wines. On the service plate is a rolled napkin (never in a napkin ring - that is for family meals) with the place card on top. Above the plate, an individual saltcellar, ash tray (well, not any more), nut dish and menu.
After the guests are seated and the napkins removed, the oyster plate is placed on the service plate, and when that is cleared, the soup plate is placed on the service plate. Those two are removed together, and a heated plate is put in the place. Fish and meat courses are served from platters; the footmen present the platters and the guests take portions for themselves. No seconds.
No place is ever without a plate until just before dessert. At that point, everything is removed except the wine and water glasses. The dessert plate is brought in with a doily on top, a finger bowl on top of that, and a fork balanced on the left side of the plate and a spoon on the right. The guest removes the doily and finger bowl, and places the bowl to the left of the plate and the fork and spoon on either side of the plate. Dessert consists of ices, sweets and fruit.
Warning. Food post follows
Here are courses for a traditional formal dinner:
1. Oysters or clams on the half shell.
2. Soup, with a choice of clear or thick.
3. Radishes, celery, olives and salted almonds.
4. Fish, served with fancifully shaped potatoes and cucumbers with oil and vinegar.
5. Sweetbreads or mushrooms.
6. Artichokes, asparagus, or spinach in pastry.
7. A roast or joint, with a green vegetable.
8. Frozen Roman punch (to clear the palate).
9. Game, served with salad.
10. Heavy pudding or other creamed sweet.
11. A frozen sweet.
12. Cheeses, with biscuits and butter.
13. Fresh, crystallized and stuffed dried fruits, served with bonbons.
14. Coffee, liqueurs, and sparkling waters.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
I'll have to chew on that awhile ....
wow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Sparteye, what a great post. Did you work your way thru college & law school waiting on tables?
As to your pop quiz, when the guests were seated at table, each was expected to begin making polite conversation with the person on his/her right (ladies and gentlemen alternated and it would have been a most serious breach of propriety if a man were seated next to his own wife). The male guest of honor, or the highest-ranking male guest was seated at the right of the hostess, so she started conversing with him. About midway thru the meal, the hostess would "turn the table" by switching to the guest on her left, and the rest of the diners followed suit.
Two things that occur to me: 1. You omit the fact that following the last of the courses you list, the hostess rose and the ladies left the table, to take coffee in the drawing room while the men circulated the port or cognac and maybe enjoyed cigars, joining the ladies in due course.
2. The oysters served as openers were de rigueure; oysters, in the late 19th century and beginning of the 20th, were eaten in quantities and frequency unheard of today. Of course, they were plentiful and cheap then. Diamond Jim Brady, a well-known financier and man-about-town (his mistress was Lillian Russell, whom he presented with a gold-plated and diamond-encrusted bicycle), used to start dinner nearly every day with 4 or 5 dozen oysters. No wonder the urology dept. at Johns Hopkins Hospital is called the Brady Institute; he did such a number on his urinary tract that he needed extensive treatment there around the turn of the last century and got such good results he gave them a huge wad of money and they named the department for him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Sparteye and BobY,
Gulp!
Now, when the gentlemen were passing the Port
(it is my understanding all servants withdrew so the gentleman could talk freely)
did the host pour for himself first? If not, who did? And in which direction was the bottle then properly passed ... to left or to right?
I cannot remember!
wow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773 |
In reply to:
You omit the fact that following the last of the courses you list, the hostess rose and the ladies left the table, to take coffee in the drawing room while the men circulated the port or cognac and maybe enjoyed cigars, joining the ladies in due course.
The custom of separating by gender after dinner has gone the way of the reason for the separation.  Current etiquette authorities suggest that, if there is a division to be made, it is between smokers and nonsmokers. I tend to agree.
That assumes, of course, that you can manage to stand and walk out of the room after eating all that food. I don't know how they ate even a bite or two of every course while wearing corsets.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Of course, there were other reasons for the separation of sexes as well. It was customary not to rise from the table during the meal; it was regarded as unpolite. When the ladies "withdrew" to the "(with)drawing" room after the meal, they had the opportunity to relieve themselves. The men had no such opportunity. During the eighteenth and early nineteenth centures, any man who wished to relieve himself did so in a chamber pot usually kept in one of the side boards, in full public view. And, of course, no one washed their hands. Hmmm. 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
men relieving themselves at dinner
and while wearing corsets, as Sparteye notes. Of course, they didn't wash their hands -- they wore gloves (which must have got pretty funky by the end of the evening).
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,322
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
517
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
