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#24418 03/23/01 09:40 AM
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In the AA "Big Book" on page 25 P.3 there is a line that states," The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way that is indeed miraculous."

Is the word "lives" as it is used here, a noun or a verb?





#24419 03/23/01 10:54 AM
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i assume you mean the second appearance of 'lives'. my inclination would be toward reading it as a noun, though it sounds horribly redundant. the sentence would read easier in my mind if they were to replace the first 'lives' with 'existence'.

it'll be interesting to see what everyone else has to say; thanks for a thought-provoking question, and welcome a-Board, harrysiegel!





#24420 03/23/01 11:19 AM
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harrysiegel -- I read your post this morning while still working on my first sip of coffee and I can't vouch I was there at the time. For what it's worth, on first scan, I read the second instance as a verb despite the offbeat meaning. In my haze of last night's toasts, I was so comfortable with that reading that I had a hard time understanding your question. But I think Bridge is right and right again that the redundancy is the wrench in the works. Existence would scan more easily but, at a step removed from the knitty gritty, I don't think it would say what the good AA intended.

Welcome to the rabble, may your days aboard be ever clear and tranquil. &

IP


#24421 03/23/01 01:19 PM
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Welcome to you, harrysiegel, and to all the others to whom I was too rushed to personalize a welcome.

It's a noun. Has to be. Though it does make sense as a verb, the phrase about the Creator "entering our hearts and our lives" is very common, and I think that's the usage here. The next sentence, unfortunately, isn't helpful:
"He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves." One doesn't, as a rule,
speak of the Creator "living", as in living what for us are normal life experiences. He does not *live* (our lives), I don't think, as would be the meaning if the word in your quote were intended as a verb. (As opposed to saying he can live IN our lives, that is.)

If it were intended as a verb, I think there would have been a comma after hearts: "...our Creator has entered into our hearts, and lives in a way that is indeed miraculous."





#24422 03/23/01 01:31 PM
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And his editor should have changed it to "lives and hearts" to avoid ambiguity.


#24423 03/23/01 01:55 PM
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And his editor should have changed it to "lives and hearts" to avoid ambiguity.

And to point out that lives can be heartless.


#24424 03/23/01 02:12 PM
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And the quotation is entirely too optimistic. I wish I could see more evidence that the Creator is doing something to abate the prevalence of hate and cruelty in so many people.


#24425 03/23/01 02:24 PM
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I read "lives" as a noun initially, and upon re-reading it several times still believe that the writer intended it as a noun.

This is an excellent example of ambiguous writing, which we see all too often when construing statutes. Ah well, it keeps counsel fully employed...


#24426 03/23/01 02:33 PM
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Ahhh, Dr. Bill : I prefer to believe that God does good; it is Man that does wrong.
wow


#24427 03/23/01 02:43 PM
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I prefer to believe that God does good; it is Man that does wrong.

That is precisely how Augustine answered the threat of Gnosticism: if *man* is the source of evil, God is pure good.


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