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#22004 03/11/01 03:34 AM
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We know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.

Only a very deep-seated sense of decorum stops me from adding the next line.


#22005 03/11/01 03:38 AM
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I read it on this board. What does "Timor mortis conturbat me" mean?

Also what does "Alea Jacta est" mean?


#22006 03/11/01 03:51 AM
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Timor mortis conturbat me
The fear of death disturbs me.

Alea Jacta est
The die is cast.


#22007 03/11/01 06:14 AM
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Thanks


#22008 03/12/01 01:13 AM
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O Captain, my Captain,you granted authority to those who would "beg to differ" and I now beseech you for that purpose. My view is that there are several errors in the thread that want correcting and I shall offer the following.
Let's start w/ the Latin quote . I do not know whether the gladiators always said, in a ritualistic fashion, exactly the same words, but the Latin phrase is usually quoted "Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus!" The English translation is, "Hail, Caesar! We who are about to die salute you! ("Salutamus" is pres. indic. , 1st person,pl. "we salute" (The saluters) ) "te" (Caesar) (the salutee), hence the pronoun "te" is in the accusAtive "case". Nouns and pronouns have "case". Verbs do not. "Morituri" would take a minute to explain and I rather doubt that anyone is interested except Bobyoungblatt who could authoritatively and succinctly explain it to all of us. Hate to be picky, but wanted to set record straight.


#22009 03/12/01 02:48 AM
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lectisternium - an ancient Greek/Roman religious rite in which the images of gods were placed on couches and food spread before them

I am reminded (belatedly) that this is now called "football season" in the U.S.



#22010 03/12/01 10:31 AM
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Scribbler said Let's start w/ the Latin quote . I do not know whether the gladiators always said, in a ritualistic fashion, exactly the same words, but the Latin phrase is usually quoted "Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus!"

"Salutant" was engraved in an amphitheatre somewhere (can't remember which one if I ever knew - I saw it in a photograph). There is a well-researched book about the "ludi" I once borrowed, but I can't remember the name of it at this distance in time. However, I will freely concede that they may have also used salutamus.

I must have been tired when I wrote "accusative" when I of course meant "active".

And they only used "Caesar" when Caesar was physically present. If they had saluted anyone but the real Caesar and the real Caesar got to hear about it, there would have been free ring-centre tickets to the Roman circuses all round, along with the wild animals.

I believe they used either "Domine" or "Dominus" (or perhaps the person's name) for anyone else. Rich nobles used to pay for the games both in Rome and elsewhere. Claudius, for instance, "paid" for games when he was made city magistrate. Since either Tiberius or Caligula was Caesar at the time, I don't think it would have been either politic or healthy for either the (surviving) gladiators or Claudius to be talking about Caesar like that ... Sejanus would have had them if it was Tiberius, and Caligula was mad as a hatter and had people murdered for much smaller crimes. Or no crime at all, as a matter of fact.





The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#22011 03/12/01 12:41 PM
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Scribbler noted: I do not know whether the gladiators always said, in a ritualistic fashion, exactly the same words, but the Latin phrase is usually quoted "Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus!"

It is my understanding that "Morituri" is a future active participle, i.e. a verbal adjective which can therefore be used as a noun, as in the phrase "Morituri te salutant/salutamus" (I understand that it is used as a noun simply because there is no other nominal element for the subject position). In this case, "morituri" is a plural noun that could accompany any verb in the plural. So grammatically speaking, both "Morituri te salutant" and "Morituri te salutamus" are correct. If you were to add a pronoun to the sentence, such as "nos", "illi", that would certainly determine which verb form is adequate.

I have more often heard/read "Morituri te salutant" than "te salutamus", but this may be a fluke. Or maybe, as Scribbler notes, it was a fossilized, ritualistic phrase...



#22012 03/12/01 02:49 PM
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All Hail Four Beautiful posts in a row!Thanks to each of you,Scribbler,tsuwm,Capital Kiwi, and last but not least, lovely Marianna!


#22013 03/12/01 03:36 PM
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Morituri te salutant/salutamus

Certainly if you were talking about the gladiators from the comfort of your chiseling booth while the animals and gladiators were safely locked up in their cages then you would use the third person salutant. If you were one of the gladiators about to die you would use the first person salutamus.

The first time I remember seeing the word morituri it was as the title of a movie about a Japanese ship during World War II and since I thought (erroneously) at the time that it fit the form af a possible Japanese word (it would have to have been Moritsuri as I now understand these things, I may still be wrong) I thought that the word was Japanese.


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