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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 5 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Re: Determinism [Re: Buffalo Shrdlu] #209356 02/01/13 10:00 PM 02/01/13 10:00 PM Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 10,538 this too shall pass tsuwm Carpal Tunnel tsuwm   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Apr 2000 Posts: 10,538 this too shall pass yeah, well it wasn't really meant to be; but you might as well make your examples topical! Re: Determinism [Re: jenny jenny] #209357 02/01/13 11:37 PM 02/01/13 11:37 PM Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague BranShea Carpal Tunnel BranShea   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague I'm glad I had my madeleines out of the oven before I started reading. Jenny, why didn't you bring Socrates?. Socrates was a wise and clever man, he never could be wrong. That's why near the end of his book I thought he did not deserve the poison, but he sure did deserve Xantippe. Tsuwm's advise to write offline and copy is really a good one. Far more relaxed. To me the outcome looks very undetermined in spite or maybe just because of the 99 species of determinism in the wiki article. Re: Determinism [Re: BranShea] #209612 02/18/13 04:03 AM 02/18/13 04:03 AM Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi J jenny jenny veteran jenny jenny   veteran J Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi Dear, dear, tsuwm; disarticulated facts are the stuff of idiot savants. Read here the semantic evidence for Determinism. And if after reading it you don't understand it go back and read it again because you have done a poor job of putting it together. 1) In your mind multiply the total number of atoms in the universe times their interactions with other atoms since the Big Bang exploded fifteen billion years ago. 2) Life is defined by self-replication and change. 3) Lifeforms as entities extend into the environment. 4) Thoughts and words are physical extentions of lifeforms. 5) Nothing can't beget something. Re: Determinism [Re: jenny jenny] #209616 02/18/13 07:51 PM 02/18/13 07:51 PM Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 956 Auckland, New Zealand olly old hand olly   old hand Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 956 Auckland, New Zealand So, before the big bang there was something??? Just physically extending Re: Determinism [Re: olly] #209619 02/18/13 08:36 PM 02/18/13 08:36 PM Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi J jenny jenny veteran jenny jenny   veteran J Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi Originally Posted By: olly So, before the big bang there was something??? Just physically extending Yes olly, you extend physically very well. Re: Determinism [Re: jenny jenny] #209621 02/18/13 09:26 PM 02/18/13 09:26 PM Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,075 Lancaster, UK Rhubarb Commando old hand Rhubarb Commando   old hand Joined: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,075 Lancaster, UK But, it you believe in an omnipresent and ompnipotent god, all that is necessary is the (mind; will; existence? pick what you want) of god. Surely, that is what St John was saying? The universe was made extant by the Word. [personally, I don't believe any of the above, but I think it is a viable argument] PS And te Word of God is not of us, though with us, and is, therefore, not a pre-existing condition! Last edited by Rhubarb Commando; 02/18/13 09:29 PM. I'm immortal until proven otherwise Re: Determinism [Re: Jackie] #209622 02/19/13 12:27 AM 02/19/13 12:27 AM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 The concept of an omniscient God who is outside of time and the concept of free-will seem to me to be mutually exclusive. But that's why we try not to talk about religion here. Re: Determinism [Re: Faldage] #209623 02/19/13 03:26 AM 02/19/13 03:26 AM Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi J jenny jenny veteran jenny jenny   veteran J Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,554 Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi Originally Posted By: Faldage The concept of an omniscient God who is outside of time and the concept of free-will seem to me to be mutually exclusive. But that's why we try not to talk about religion here. What, Faldage? You got a mouse in your pocket? WE here can discuss whatever we please as long as WE are not rude or vulgar. RC, Olly, BranShe, you, and me, are not talking religion, we are talking Determinism so stay on point. Now listen closely... In the begining was the Word. And the word was God and the word was with God. Which translates deterministically as... Inherent with the Big Bang were all events to follow. Re: Determinism [Re: Jackie] #209628 02/19/13 11:48 AM 02/19/13 11:48 AM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 I ain't sayin' nothin' no mo'. Re: Determinism [Re: olly] #209631 02/19/13 01:58 PM 02/19/13 01:58 PM Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh So, before the big bang there was something??? So, think some cosmologists. There are theories of multiple big bangs. Multiple universes, too. Not everybody agrees. Ceci n'est pas un seing. 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