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Page 2 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > Topic Options #209106 - 01/17/13 02:13 AM Re: Determinism [Re: Faldage] Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 11613 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky we will never know all the data about anything. What about the multiplication table? Top #209110 - 01/17/13 08:40 AM Re: Determinism [Re: Jackie] Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 13803 Originally Posted By: Jackie we will never know all the data about anything. What about the multiplication table? Fine. Why does 2x2=4? Top #209112 - 01/17/13 11:19 AM [Re: Faldage] zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 3290 Loc: R'lyeh Why does 2x2=4? Is the answer to "why" data? Or is it "theory". I figure that 2x2=4 is axiomatic. Same as those "parallel lines that never meet" sort of thing. A good book to read about why the weather forecasts often are incorrect is James Gleick's Chaos: Making a New Science. _________________________ Ceci n'est pas un seing. Top #209232 - 01/24/13 12:45 AM Re: [Re: Jackie] jenny jenny veteran Registered: 06/05/10 Posts: 1554 Loc: Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi "Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect as well as the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper." - Albert Einstein Top #209247 - 01/25/13 06:16 AM Re: [Re: jenny jenny] BranShea Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 5295 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague TH15 T1NY T3XT G4M3 5H0W3 TH4T 0UR 8R41N I5 V3RY 5UGG35T1BL3. 7U5T RE4D TH15 0NC3 0R M4Y83 TW1C3 4ND 1T 5HOULD R34D L1K3 N0RM4L. 3V3N 4L83RT 31N5T31N COULD NOT F1ND TH3 P13D P1P3R, TH3 ON3 TH4T 1NT0N35 TH3 MY5T3R1OU5 5TR1NG5. T1LL W3 F1ND TH3 'P1P3R ' 1M H4PP7 T0 L1V3 UND3R TH3 1MPR35510N TH4T I C4N M4K3 CH01C3C FR0M T1M3 TO T1M3. Top #209248 - 01/25/13 07:34 AM Re: [Re: Jackie] Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 13803 On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays I think we have free will but that the results of our ability to choose are swamped by the chaos that we live in. On Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays I think that our actions are determined but that chaos of things makes those causes incalculable. Top #209249 - 01/25/13 08:43 AM Re: [Re: Faldage] BranShea Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 5295 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague Maybe once one has fundamentally accepted chaos as an 8-days a week reality, to believe in free choice or its illusions is easier. Top #209255 - 01/25/13 11:06 PM Re: Mumbo Jumbo [Re: BranShea] jenny jenny veteran Registered: 06/05/10 Posts: 1554 Loc: Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi ‎ "Nothing in education is so astonishing as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of inert facts." _______________________________ Henry Brooks Adams(1838-1918)historian Branshe and Jackie; Determinism is not something we understand with words. We understand determinism through our interactions with the world about us. The crocodile silently waits [progressive time] until a tasty antelope stops at the water's edge for a quick drink [cause] SNAP! [effect]. And so it is with every event that we humans and lowly bugs, etc. have observed with our senses since senses began. And words and systems of words can't change that fact. Unless, that is, we come to understand words in a new light. Edited by jenny jenny (01/26/13 01:46 AM) Top #209263 - 01/26/13 10:40 PM Re: Mumbo Jumbo [Re: Jackie] Jackie Carpal Tunnel Registered: 03/15/00 Posts: 11613 Loc: Louisville, Kentucky Hmm. Are you saying that, for example, Person A slaps Person B in the face, then A will slap B? Or just likely that A will slap B? Or how about just possibly A will slap B? Top #209264 - 01/26/13 11:01 PM Re: Mumbo Jumbo [Re: Jackie] tsuwm Carpal Tunnel Registered: 04/03/00 Posts: 10538 Loc: this too shall pass Originally Posted By: Jackie Hmm. Are you saying that, for example, Person A slaps Person B in the face, then A will slap B? Or just likely that A will slap B? Or how about just possibly A will slap B? I think you've got your 'then' turned around; if so, the result is indeterminate as set up. 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