Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 41
L
newbie
OP Offline
newbie
L
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 41
I toiled under / in the scorching sun, carrying heavy golf bags.

Should 'under' or 'in' be used?

Thanks.

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Either is OK.

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
"At noon, farmers are weeding under the scorching sun"
Their sweat dripping down onto the ground.
Each and every grain of rice in your bowl
is the fruit of the toiling farmers."

Tang-Dynasty Poet Li Shen.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,075
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,075
Lord Macaulay, in his epic poem, Virginia, favours "under."

"Here, in this very Forum, under the noonday sun,
In the sight of all the people, the bloody deed was done."

But Noel Coward - also a superb crafter of the English language - favours, "in."

"Mad dogs and Englishmen
Go out in the noonday sun."

That your pick, as the site foreman said to the confused Irishman, as he offered him the choice of two shovels.


I'm immortal until proven otherwise
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Agree, they both are good shovels. Somehow I associate 'under' sooner with tossing and toiling and solemn things;
'in' with outdoor leisure s.a. sunbathing. Just down to earth things which bring me back to your shovels.

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,554
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,554
Good point, Branshe.

What imprecise speakers like Noel Coward mean when they say "in the sun" is "into the sun" with the "to" implied. This is nonsense unless they include the rays and effects of sun as parts of its corporeal body.

Everyone can walk beneath the real sun.
No one I know can walk into the sun. smile

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,075
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,075
I don't think that Coward was implying "into" (quite apart ffrom the fact that he needed a word that scanned!)
His use is similar to that of Dorothy Slade's words (to Julian Reynolds tune) in Salad Days, "I sit in the Sun/ and one by one/I collect my thoughts/ And i think them over;"
Slade could well have used "under" in this context, but scansion, again, takes precedence. However, the two words are not inevitably interchangeable: if one talks of, "all beasts ubder the sun ..." one could not use "in". Nor could you really use "under" in the phrase in, "I am sweltering in the sun's direct rays."


I'm immortal until proven otherwise
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Rhuby says well.

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,554
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,554
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Rhuby says well.


Yes, Faldage. And therein lies the conflict.

Did Rhuby say "well" or is it what Rhuby has said that is well?

"In the sun" serves poetry and street speak well but would not be acceptable if used in a science paper unless one was actually going into the sun. But we quibble.

Of course we quibble. Everyone here has spoken millions and millions of words so we are all language experts. Aren't you? smile

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Yet Rhuby says well. Depending on the context interchangeable or not. The examples are fine.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,271
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (A C Bowden), 285 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,502
LukeJavan8 9,915
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5