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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 1 of 2 1 2 #199225 - 04/19/11 02:30 PM pariah   Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 1 Mowgli stranger Mowgli   stranger Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 1 To explain why drummers were members of the lowest caste - Drumming was an occupation performed by the Dalit or untouchable caste because drums were made from the tanned hides of animals and therefore associated with death. Therefore, the task of beating on them with bare hands fell to the Dalit caste, who performed the "unclean" occupations having to do with death and human waste. #199226 - 04/19/11 02:57 PM Re: pariah [Re: Mowgli]   Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,915 LukeJavan8 Carpal Tunnel LukeJavan8   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,915 Land of the Flat Water Makes perfect sense in a caste-like situation. WELCOME MOWGLI ----please, draw me a sheep---- #199231 - 04/19/11 07:35 PM Re: pariah [Re: Mowgli]   Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 BranShea Carpal Tunnel BranShea   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,295 Netherlands, the Hague Thanks for this information (Earliest documented use: 1613.) Does this mean Mowgli, that before 1613 Dalit was the general word for the untouchable caste ? Has pariah replaced this word Dalit which you write with capital D , while pariah is written without a capitial ? I know very little about this. Was the untouchable caste only one tribe? By the way, on the photo the drummer is beating the drum with two sticks. Last edited by BranShea; 04/19/11 07:39 PM. #199233 - 04/19/11 11:09 PM Re: pariah [Re: BranShea]   Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 That "earliest documented use" is probably the earliest use in English and has nothing to do with the Indian caste system. #199243 - 04/20/11 01:21 PM Re: pariah [Re: Faldage]   Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh the Indian caste system In the Oldest Sanskrit text (the Rig Veda), there are four divisions, from highest to lowest, in the caste system (varṇa 'covering, color'): brāhman 'priest', kṣatriya 'warrior', vaiṣya 'merchant, artisan', and śūdra 'laborer'. The split and proliferated in post-Vedic times. Brahmin is related to Latin flamen 'priest' and Kshatriya is related to Iranian shah and English chess. Ceci n'est pas un seing. #199259 - 04/21/11 05:16 AM Re: pariah [Re: Faldage]   Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,706 Candy Pooh-Bah Candy   Pooh-Bah Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,706 down under Originally Posted By: Faldage That "earliest documented use" is probably the earliest use in English and has nothing to do with the Indian caste system. Thats a good point, Faldage. I have read that the word pariah may come from the Tamil word parai and parayar "to tell something". In early days announcements were made in public places and attention was sought be beating the drum. These broadcasts were usually made by men from the lower casts. So you can see how the two became to mean the same, pariah and low cast. And maybe the messages were not always good news..... Like the saying, 'shoot the messenger' maybe the pariah became the outcast because of the announcements he made. #199266 - 04/21/11 12:08 PM Re: pariah [Re: Mowgli]   Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 132 goofy member goofy   member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 132 According to the OED Online, "pariah" is from Tamil பறையன் paṟaiyaṉ "(hereditary) drummer" from பறை paṟai "drum". #199267 - 04/21/11 01:55 PM Re: pariah [Re: goofy]   Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh from பறை paṟai "drum" Took a quick look in Burrow's Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (brick & mortar version, but also online): entry 4033. Corroborated, although it also means a measure and a member of the Paraiya caste. Ceci n'est pas un seing. #199273 - 04/21/11 03:31 PM Re: pariah [Re: zmjezhd]   Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 724 Avy old hand Avy   old hand Joined: Jun 2000 Posts: 724 I can't contribute to this discussion, because I do not know much about caste. In modern cosmopolitan daily life in India, it is not much of an issue. Edit: Sorry luke edited this after you replied to it. Never serves to refer to the P word. Last edited by Avy; 04/22/11 04:03 PM. #199276 - 04/21/11 05:16 PM Re: pariah [Re: Avy]   Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,915 LukeJavan8 Carpal Tunnel LukeJavan8   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,915 Land of the Flat Water How sad! But it is good to hear that it is not of daily relevance. ----please, draw me a sheep---- Page 1 of 2 1 2 Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------   Information and announcements   Q&A about words   Wordplay and fun   Words and languages in schools   Miscellany   Weekly Themes   Looking for (writers, speakers, ...) (Old) Weekly themes. 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