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#199225 - 04/19/11 10:30 AM pariah
Mowgli stranger Registered: 04/19/11 Posts: 1	To explain why drummers were members of the lowest caste - Drumming was an occupation performed by the Dalit or untouchable caste because drums were made from the tanned hides of animals and therefore associated with death. Therefore, the task of beating on them with bare hands fell to the Dalit caste, who performed the "unclean" occupations having to do with death and human waste.
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#199226 - 04/19/11 10:57 AM Re: pariah [Re: Mowgli]
LukeJavan8 Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/08 Posts: 8429 Loc: Land of the Flat Water	Makes perfect sense in a caste-like situation. WELCOME MOWGLI _________________________ ----please, draw me a sheep----
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#199231 - 04/19/11 03:35 PM Re: pariah [Re: Mowgli]
BranShea Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/06 Posts: 5295 Loc: Netherlands, the Hague	Thanks for this information (Earliest documented use: 1613.) Does this mean Mowgli, that before 1613 Dalit was the general word for the untouchable caste ? Has pariah replaced this word Dalit which you write with capital D , while pariah is written without a capitial ? I know very little about this. Was the untouchable caste only one tribe? By the way, on the photo the drummer is beating the drum with two sticks. Edited by BranShea (04/19/11 03:39 PM)
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#199233 - 04/19/11 07:09 PM Re: pariah [Re: BranShea]
Faldage Carpal Tunnel Registered: 12/01/00 Posts: 13803	That "earliest documented use" is probably the earliest use in English and has nothing to do with the Indian caste system.
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#199243 - 04/20/11 09:21 AM Re: pariah [Re: Faldage]
zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 3290 Loc: R'lyeh	the Indian caste system In the Oldest Sanskrit text (the Rig Veda), there are four divisions, from highest to lowest, in the caste system (varṇa 'covering, color'): brāhman 'priest', kṣatriya 'warrior', vaiṣya 'merchant, artisan', and śūdra 'laborer'. The split and proliferated in post-Vedic times. Brahmin is related to Latin flamen 'priest' and Kshatriya is related to Iranian shah and English chess. _________________________ Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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#199259 - 04/21/11 01:16 AM Re: pariah [Re: Faldage]
Candy Pooh-Bah Registered: 09/21/10 Posts: 1706 Loc: down under	Originally Posted By: Faldage That "earliest documented use" is probably the earliest use in English and has nothing to do with the Indian caste system. Thats a good point, Faldage. I have read that the word pariah may come from the Tamil word parai and parayar "to tell something". In early days announcements were made in public places and attention was sought be beating the drum. These broadcasts were usually made by men from the lower casts. So you can see how the two became to mean the same, pariah and low cast. And maybe the messages were not always good news..... Like the saying, 'shoot the messenger' maybe the pariah became the outcast because of the announcements he made.
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#199266 - 04/21/11 08:08 AM Re: pariah [Re: Mowgli]
goofy member Registered: 01/06/08 Posts: 132	According to the OED Online, "pariah" is from Tamil பறையன் paṟaiyaṉ "(hereditary) drummer" from பறை paṟai "drum".
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#199267 - 04/21/11 09:55 AM Re: pariah [Re: goofy]
zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Registered: 08/13/05 Posts: 3290 Loc: R'lyeh	from பறை paṟai "drum" Took a quick look in Burrow's Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (brick & mortar version, but also online): entry 4033. Corroborated, although it also means a measure and a member of the Paraiya caste. _________________________ Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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#199273 - 04/21/11 11:31 AM Re: pariah [Re: zmjezhd]
Avy old hand Registered: 06/23/00 Posts: 724	I can't contribute to this discussion, because I do not know much about caste. In modern cosmopolitan daily life in India, it is not much of an issue. Edit: Sorry luke edited this after you replied to it. Never serves to refer to the P word. Edited by Avy (04/22/11 12:03 PM)
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#199276 - 04/21/11 01:16 PM Re: pariah [Re: Avy]
LukeJavan8 Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/23/08 Posts: 8429 Loc: Land of the Flat Water	How sad! But it is good to hear that it is not of daily relevance. _________________________ ----please, draw me a sheep----
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