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#19818 02/21/01 08:49 PM
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Today on my matutinal two mile hike around the block, I saw an Hispanic lady raking the gutter in front of her apartment. Without stopping to think that she might be unable to understand, I gave her the gesture made by both hands clasped above head level, intended to mean "Well done" which I think had its origin in umpire raising boxer's hand in his, to signify he was the victor. Fortunately the Hispanic lady appeared to understand, and gave me a beatific smile.
It occurred to me that there are a lot of gestures that used to be common, that I have not seen for a long time.
For one, a whittling motion of one index finger against the other to mean "shame on you." No idea how it originated.
It has been a long time since I saw one kid thumb his nose at another,or stick his tongue out at another.
There remains one other gesture of insolent defiance which I need not describe as it is all too prevalent.
I hope some of you may be able to remember others and post comments.


#19819 02/21/01 09:02 PM
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Here's an example of a "false friend" hand gesture: The American gesture for OK (thumb and forefinger forming a circle) is as obscene/insulting in Brazil as the extended middle finger is here (and elsewhere).


#19820 02/21/01 09:17 PM
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Speaking of being lost in the translation, years ago i worked in the airline supply industry, and was assigned to Qantas, Ansett, Air New Zealand and such. Once when i was pleading with a buyer to forgive an avoidably late delivery, i asked him to "cut me some slack". He informed me that where he came from (can't remember now if he was Zild or Aussie) that meant... .... to copulate. Was he pulling my leg?? (oh, dear, don't tell me that one has multiple entendres as well....)


#19821 02/21/01 09:19 PM
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Oh what a bit of serendipity! Last week's Economist had a review of a new translation of a book first published in 1769 -- in italian Gesture in Naple and Gestures in Classical Antiquity by Andrea de Jorio -translated by Adam Kendon. indiana University Press $49.95.

Here in NY hand and body gesture are still taken seriously You can give someone a "digital salute" or the bird-- or you can put one fist into the joint of your elbow and raise the other fist up, with knuckles facing out. the meaning is the same. the review illustates a gesture the hand as fist, with the thumb poking out between the index and middle finger -- as the Economist notes-- an sexual insult! I seen it used (but not lately) In fact, i knew 4 of the ten gesture they in review! the meaning are slightly modified..

An open hand, with fingers slightly splayed-- and the thumb touching the index indicates "amore" in the 1769 guide-- but i would read it as "you are beautiful (or sexy-- but not in a slutty way)" Or maybe " i love how you look" and the fingers bunched together, with the thumb touching them- according to the guide "asking" but i read it as "listen" (this last one is commonly used in "italian" movies like the "godfather") and a closed hand with the thumb rubbing against the index finger--(a move similar to "snapping ones fingers" but softer, slower)" money".. just how i would use it or read it.

Of course NY has a large italian population, and my childhood home was only a few blocks from Arther Avenue-- the Little Italy of the Bronx-- but i think all but the first have been seen in movies like the godfather--

and the thumb under the chin, and index finger crooked, pulling on one's chin-- does everyone know that as "just kidding" or "in jest"?




#19822 02/21/01 09:27 PM
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Ledasdottir offers: put one fist into the joint of your elbow and raise the other fist up, with knuckles facing out

This is very similar to the ASL gesture meaning "Good Morning", particularly if you add the opening of the hand at the end of the former gesture.

Fiorello LaGuardia grew up speaking English, Italian and Yiddish. It has been reported that you could tell from silent movies (probably non-voice over newsreels) of him giving speeches what language he was speaking by the hand gestures he used.


#19823 02/21/01 09:35 PM
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yes-- i have heard that about the little flower--

Herman Badillo-- who is PR, but hung out with italians can also "speak in two languages" and when he first ran for office in the Bronx "won" over large parts of the italian population by having his name intentionaly mispronounced as Ba dillo (to rhym with Brillo) and used italian gestures. Now his name is alway pronounced as ba deho which is as close as NYer's get to the spanish pronounciation.


#19824 02/21/01 09:47 PM
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>i asked him to "cut me some slack". He informed me that where he came from (can't remember now if he was Zild or Aussie) that meant... .... to copulate. Was he pulling my leg??

Bridget96, I can't speak for all Aussies, and I wouldn't dare do it for the K-one-W-ones, but I've only ever heard the expression used in the context you intended - to give me a chance to do something, to give me breathing space. I'm struggling to understand how it could mean anything to do with copulation, but then again I've led a very sheltered life.

About the only other meaning that I could construe for "cut me some slack" would be an order to a tailor for a trouser.


#19825 02/21/01 10:12 PM
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There is some confusion as to the difference between the Hawaiian hand greeting -- the Shaka -- and the American Sign Language "I love you" used as a general greeting.

The ASL gesture is palm outward with thumb, first finger and little finger upright and other two folded into the palm.
It is always done that way ... palm toward the other person.

The Shaka starts with the palm towards you and just the thumb and little finger upright, the other fingers folded into the palm. The back of the hand toward other person.
Now, the shaka has infinite variations and many meanings, some with palm out, some with different motions and is best left to those who know the variations, until you have learned! Pretty easy to pick up with close observation.
Aloha
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#19826 02/21/01 10:32 PM
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The simple "thumbs up" has had an interesting evolution for me, from "OK" (images here of Allied pilots during WW2) to "get f*" (or was that just schoolboy misunderstanding of which finger to use?) and back to "OK" again.


#19827 02/21/01 11:21 PM
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He informed me that where he came from (can't remember now if he was Zild or Aussie) that meant... .... to copulate.

Marty would not dare presume to speak for K1W1s, but my overwheening self-absorption means that I have no qualms about doing so. I have never heard "cut me some slack" used to mean anything other than the definition you are familiar with, nor "pull my leg", though I'm sure our West Island neighbours could create some off-colour ovine reference for K1W1-baiting, their national religion.


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