Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
#182001 - 01/24/09 01:35 AM Re: Sui generis [Re: Fauve]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
twosleepy Offline
old hand
twosleepy  Offline
old hand

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
western NY
Originally Posted By: Fauve
3) On your final comment sleepy, I was wondering, do you prefer "data are" or "data is"?

I'm slowly getting used to data are, having been committed to "data is", for years. Apparently the Times still uses both. The example you were wondering about seems more natural for me to use the plural because the reference to the "collection of ex-presidents". With data, I guess I've always been used to viewing it as singular.

I have to admit, although it makes my prescriptivist fairy cringe, that my ear prefers "data is". Thing is, you almost never hear "datum", but I suppose that would be "datum is". Sometimes ya just gotta throw up your hands and go with your gut! :0)

Oh, but "collection" is singular, and is the subject, whereas "of ex-presidents" is only the modifier. If you drop the modifier, are you still comfortable? "...the only people that know are the collection we have."

#182002 - 01/24/09 02:38 AM Re: Sui generis [Re: LukeJavan8]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Faldage  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Originally Posted By: LukeJavan8

There are basically two main pronunciations of Latin: Classic and Ecclesiastical.
Classic would call Caesar: "Ky zer"
Ecclesiastical would say; "Say zar"

If you are classic: it is: su ee gay nay ris
if you're Ecclesiastical: su ee jen er is


You can subdivide the Ecclesiastical into, mainly, German (Caesar = tseh sar) and Italianate (Caesar = tsheh sar). There may be other versions of the Ecclesiastical. Then there's US legal Latin which is basically an abomination. Sine die, which would be "see neh dee eh" in Classical, or either of the main Ecclesiasticals, is "sigh knee die" in US legal.

#182009 - 01/24/09 11:23 PM Re: Sui generis [Re: twosleepy]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 35
Fauve Offline
newbie
Fauve  Offline
newbie

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 35
New Yorker

[/quote]
Oh, but "collection" is singular, and is the subject, whereas "of ex-presidents" is only the modifier. If you drop the modifier, are you still comfortable? "...the only people that know are the collection we have." [/quote]

I guess I fell into the trap there. Now I feel very uncomfortable! frown

#182010 - 01/24/09 11:32 PM Re: Sui generis [Re: Fauve]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Faldage  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
On the other hand, it's not the collection that knows, it's the ex-presidents that make up the collection. And they know.

#182011 - 01/25/09 01:57 AM Re: Sui generis [Re: LukeJavan8]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
PastorVon Offline
member
PastorVon  Offline
member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
USA, North Carolina

There are basically two main pronunciations of Latin: Classic and Ecclesiastical.
Classic would call Caesar: "Ky zer"
Ecclesiastical would say; "Say zar"

If you are classic: it is: su ee gay nay ris
if you're Ecclesiastical: su ee jen er is [/quote]

Well, since Obama claims to be the President of the common man, what is he doing using Latin regardless of the way it is pronounced? To me it is too "generous sooey" amy way you slice it.

I thought A.W.A.D. dealt with words that were common to English. There are some Latin phrases and clauses that may have become appropriate to spoken and written English; but it would seem that this is not one of them.

I don't think I'm long for AWAD's Forums. Since beginning to post here, I've been getting a lot of canned ham and was getting none before.

#182019 - 01/25/09 03:17 PM Re: Sui generis [Re: PastorVon]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel
zmjezhd  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
R'lyeh
Classic would call Caesar: "Ky zer"
Ecclesiastical would say; "Say zar"


The reconstructed classical pronunciation of Latin would pronounce Caesar /'kajsar/ (in Greek it was transcribed Καίσαρ kaisar) and the Italian (or Ecclesiastical) would be /'ʧɛzar/. Many of the European countries have (had) their own peculiar Latin pronunciation bringing it more into line with the phonological inventory of the corresponding national languages.

Since beginning to post here, I've been getting a lot of canned ham and was getting none before.

If you're concerned about spam emails, one way to lighten the flow is to get yourself a Yahoo, Gmail, or Hotmail account and only use that when signing up for online forums. Gmail has a particularly nice spam filter.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
#182022 - 01/25/09 03:58 PM Re: Sui generis [Re: Faldage]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 35
Fauve Offline
newbie
Fauve  Offline
newbie

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 35
New Yorker
Originally Posted By: Faldage
On the other hand, it's not the collection that knows, it's the ex-presidents that make up the collection. And they know.


Thank you Faldage. I'm feeling more comfortable again..

#182050 - 01/26/09 05:25 PM Re: Sui generis [Re: Fauve]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,036
LukeJavan8 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
LukeJavan8  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,036
Land of the Flat Water
Originally Posted By: Fauve
Then there's always the German pronunciation of Latin. Yet another variant.


Exactly. I think I was just thinking about taking Latin in the US and changing schools
in high school. I had to learn to re-pronounce everything
Veni, vidi, vici.
l) Vay nee, vee dee, vee chee
2) wen nee, wid ee, wik kee.


----please, draw me a sheep----
#182051 - 01/26/09 05:26 PM Re: Sui generis [Re: LukeJavan8]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,036
LukeJavan8 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
LukeJavan8  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,036
Land of the Flat Water

For those who did not read AWAD< Anu, this week:
Joke a few years past. Chinese restaurant served
Chop suey generous.


----please, draw me a sheep----
#182077 - 01/27/09 02:32 PM Re: Sui generis [Re: Fauve]  
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
The Pook Offline
old hand
The Pook  Offline
old hand

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
Tasmania
Originally Posted By: Fauve
3) On your final comment sleepy, I was wondering, do you prefer "data are" or "data is"?

Data is ...an android.

Page 2 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Jackie 

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,879
Posts224,114
Members9,030
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
santo, piostylist, prgill, thefoeller, Ajubdeen
9030 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 40 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters(All Time)
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,538
LukeJavan8 9,036
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2017 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 2.7389 MB (Peak: 2.8785 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-11-18 10:35:21 UTC