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#179303 09/27/08 02:51 PM
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Jackie Offline OP
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What, exactly, does this term mean, please? And was there a "Modernism" culture that I missed?

Jackie #179306 09/27/08 03:56 PM
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tsuwm #179307 09/27/08 04:01 PM
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Post-modernism came after Modernism. It started out as an architectural term, was adopted and adapted by literary critics to roughly apply to post-WW2 literature. It has since been borrowed by all kinds of folks and to many is today a pejorative term.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
tsuwm #179308 09/27/08 11:10 PM
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Jackie Offline OP
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Good grief!! Is that Wikipedia article correct? No wonder I've never liked philosophy! Trying to comprehend exactly what this term means seems on a par with nailing gelatin to a wall: no sooner do you think you have part of it, than it slithers away from your grasp.
It almost sounds like anybody can use the term to mean pretty much anything. I did learn, though, that it's much older than I'd thought it was; I had the vague idea that it referred only as far back as maybe 1990.

Jackie #179309 09/27/08 11:17 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Jackie
No wonder I've never liked philosophy! ...
It almost sounds like anybody can use the term to mean pretty much anything.


I'm with you here. The only philosophy course that made any sense to me was the one sung by cleese, chapman, idle, palin and friends.

Jackie #179310 09/27/08 11:45 PM
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Modernism in its broadest sense refers to the prevailing philosophy underpinning Western European culture since the Enlightenment (or as my old Theology lecturer liked to call it, 'the Endarkenment'). As such it has been around for a long time.

The features of Modernism include:
- a high regard for Reason and the Western Philosophical traditions going back two and a half thousand years to Socrates.
- a movement from the God-centered universe of late medieval times to a Man-centered universe where Man becomes 'the measure of all things' and the measurer of all things.
- Ramism in logic, Objectivism (or pseudo-Objectivism) in philosophy and theology (cf Hegel) and Empiricism in Science.
- a tendency towards Materialism and the rejection of anything existing beyond the known senses. Modernism generally speaking doesn't like allowing for Mystery or admitting that there are things that 'science' can't comprehend.
- a focus on 'the Big Picture' rather than the diverse parts. Modernism likes to imposes structure and meaning on the universe and organise data into patterns that show cause and effect on as large a scale as possible. Modernism desires a harmony of the parts into a coherent whole. Postmodernism on the other hand 'focuses' (not quite the right word) on the diversity of the universe and consciously rejects the search for a wider meaning, preferring to see the universe as a multiverse that doesn't necessarily need reconciling within itself into coherent logical patterns.

Post-modernism is still too young (and perhaps too amorphous) to say whether it is truly a transition to a new philosophical age or just a short term trend, but as a generalisation, people over about forty years of age tend to think in more Modernist terms than the younger generations.

The Baby Boomers, Generation Jones (or the Tweeners as they are also known), and the older Gen-Xes prefer 'Big' things, big causes, universal categories, objective truth, absolutes, capital 'R' Reason, etc. The big no-no for Modernists is being irrational and unscientific. Their big epistemological questions are "Is is True?" and "Can I believe it?"

Postmodern generations, on the other hand, tend to glorify the small and local rather than the big and national and universal. Their outlook is tribal more than democratic, experiential more than scientific, emotional more than rational, 'spiritual' more than materialistic, subjective more than objective, animist rather than humanist, holist rather than compartmentalist. The postmodernist is more likely to be concerned more with the reality of relationships within her own little group of friends than with abstract big picture concepts like World Peace. The big no-no for post-Modernists is intolerance, since there is not one truth but many truths and what is true for you may not be true for me. Live and let live. They are pragmatists not theorists, and if they had big questions rather than a lot of little questions, these would be "Is it Real" and "Can I live it?"

That is a fairly brief summary and contains many generalisations. It should only be applied as such. No one is wholly one or the other, and indeed any particular individual will be affected in their worldview by many different philosophical, relational, religious, social and personal factors. Such tags are descriptive, not prescriptive. A bit like human social grammar.

latishya #179311 09/27/08 11:50 PM
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 Originally Posted By: latishya
 Originally Posted By: Jackie
No wonder I've never liked philosophy! ...
It almost sounds like anybody can use the term to mean pretty much anything.


I'm with you here. The only philosophy course that made any sense to me was the one sung by cleese, chapman, idle, palin and friends.


Which, whilst one appreciates its humorous and accurate parody of Western philosophy is itself a very Western, nihilistic rejection of the notion that it is worthwhile pursuing objective Truth. Pythonism relies squarely on, and is a natural progression from, some of the philosophy it seeks to undermine.

The Pook #179314 09/28/08 03:41 AM
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Jackie Offline OP
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Whoa! [impressed as all get-out e]. [Bow], even.

Jackie #179317 09/28/08 12:46 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Jackie
What, exactly, does this term mean, please? And was there a "Modernism" culture that I missed?


hmm...I can't believe I missed the rather obvious opportunity to make some wisecrack about Modernism not having hit Kentucky yet. Probably just as well, otherwise I might never have received the bow. Shucks, tweren't nothin'.

The Pook #179318 09/28/08 01:03 PM
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Postmodern Art

Basically postmodern thinking started in the Arts and Architecture. In the fourtiesArchitecture was still straightforward, lines and windows straight and
harmonious. From within the arts a contra movement came up. Borrowing from allsorts of styles from the past these elements could be brought together in a yet functional
way of building.

Post modern Art has its roots in the fifties and sixties, when artists created an enormousdiversity of alternative artforms: landart, environments, happenings , performances, body art, video art and finally computer art. Technology in Art is at least one aspect of Postmodernism.
American Pop Art , let's name the A.Warhol again, calling his studio factory, an idea greedily taken over right now by Daimian Hirst. (recently discussed in this theater).

In painting you see multitudes of borrowing and reworked subjects from all the stylistic periods, dipped in the artist personal dipping sauce.

Best thing is to Google Postmodern art / images and see for yourself how hollow the term really is.
Enjoy!
Don't get lost!

The term Post modern can label whatever. As to philosophy, here personally I lost it completely , A Babylonian brabbling of
contradiction and obscurities. But it gives many people a job. it.

Still I am of opinion that the real roots ly in the Dada movement of the interbellum period.This is rehashed art.




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