What happened to the L in salmon?

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#177449 - 06/16/08 02:19 PM What happened to the L in salmon?
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 1 Issigri stranger
Issigri stranger Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 1	After reading the sherbert article on MSN I was wondering if anyone could explain the pronunciation of salmon. I'm from the south and like most Southerners I pronounce the L. Most of the time you can simply go by how a similar word is promounced. Example aunt, ant/aunt?, it's aunt obviously in spite of most southerners saying "ant". Unless you're from Boston you're going to pronounce the L in falcon. So what happened to pronouncing the L in salmon?

#177462 - 06/16/08 03:51 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: Issigri]
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 876 twosleepy old hand
twosleepy old hand Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 876 western NY	Hmmm. Maybe there's a room where the silent letters go, next to the room with the letters that should be silent but get pronounced, are having a party. It is so ironic that people who are trying to sound well-educated will carefully pronounce "often" as off-ten when the "t" is actually silent; it rhymes with "soften" (which no one would pronounce soff-ten; at least I've never heard it!) So there you go; no answers, just more questions... :0)

#177463 - 06/16/08 04:04 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: Issigri]
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel
zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh	Salmon is one of those words, like perfect, where an etymological spelling has confused folks (no l there either). When it was borrowed into Middle English via Norman it was spelled and pronounced without the l: samoun. Later, people who knew some Latin realized that there should be an l in it (i.e., s;a,o, salmonis), and after that it's a hope, skip, and a jump to pronouncing the l. Likewise, perfect came into English as parfit, but after some etymologizing spellifiers got a hold of that one, we ended up, today, spelling and saying perfect. The sound of an l after a vowel and before another consonant is pronounced with secondary articulation (velarized), the so-called dark l (link). Ceci n'est pas un seing.

#177464 - 06/16/08 04:17 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: zmjezhd]
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 876 twosleepy old hand
twosleepy old hand Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 876 western NY	Interesting to note that in "salmonella" the "l" is always pronounced. Go figure...

#177468 - 06/16/08 04:33 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: twosleepy]
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 631 Hydra addict
Hydra addict Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 631	Speaking of such stuff, how many of you pronounce the r in iron?

#177470 - 06/16/08 04:47 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: Hydra]
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel
zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh	Speaking of such stuff, how many of you pronounce the r in iron? Depends on what you mean by r. I pronounce iron as /ʔʌɪjɚn/ in casual speech or /ʔaɪjɚn/ in more formal speech. (This chart may help link.) Ceci n'est pas un seing.

#177471 - 06/16/08 04:47 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: Hydra]
Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel
Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont	Originally Posted By: Hydra Speaking of such stuff, how many of you pronounce the r in iron? I don't earn my keep like Ron Obvious. formerly known as etaoin...

#177477 - 06/16/08 05:00 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: Buffalo Shrdlu]
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 631 Hydra addict
Hydra addict Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 631	^ I knew that was coming! * light applause *

#177478 - 06/16/08 05:04 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: Hydra]
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 631 Hydra addict
Hydra addict Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 631	Where I hail from, iron sounds like ion. Hence, for a long time I misheard Leonard Cohen singing, "O mask of Aaron, I was there for you," and tried like a fool to chase up the obscure reference to this Aaron fellow and his mask.

#177486 - 06/16/08 07:44 PM Re: What happened to the L in salmon? [Re: zmjezhd]
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 557 Myridon addict
Myridon addict Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 557 Dallas, TX	Originally Posted By: zmjezhd I pronounce [i]iron as /ʔʌɪjɚn/ in casual speech ... (This chart may help link.) No, doesn't help... using the chart, I get something like uhahihyan - I think I'd rather go back to the dancing architecture. 'Round these parts, it's pernounced eye urn. Last edited by Myridon; 06/16/08 07:45 PM.

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