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#174809 - 03/17/08 04:59 PM Re: honey bee safari [Re: BranShea]  
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tsuwm Offline
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this too shall pass
>What strange contradictory two meanings.

better get it added to the list of self-contradicting words.

-joe (whatever contrariety is) friday

#174824 - 03/18/08 02:13 AM Re: honey bee safari [Re: BranShea]  
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twosleepy Offline
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I don't know about bees, but you gotta wrangle a bit to move groups of horses around, and they are big and noisy and like to argue... maybe not so contradictory! :0)

I got bee pics:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2197/2333383675_5e1c60fbdc.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2334/2334209754_d0bf2cf697.jpg

(I think my pics were removed, so I made them links...)

Last edited by twosleepy; 03/18/08 12:28 PM.
#174825 - 03/18/08 04:54 AM Re: honey bee safari [Re: twosleepy]  
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latishya Offline
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कहीं &...
 Originally Posted By: twosleepy
I don't know about bees, but you gotta wrangle a bit to move groups of horses around, and they are big and noisy and like to argue... maybe not so contradictory! :0)


That's what I was thinking too.

#174826 - 03/18/08 08:58 AM Re: honey bee safari [Re: twosleepy]  
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Netherlands, the Hague
I see the connection, but the second definition: to herd, to care for sounds so much more gentle; as if the total opposite of the first one.

Nice pics. If you present them in a link (blue button up left when you use "reply") one can go to your upload site and print them. I specially asked Maven to link her " one winged hummingbird" to me. Now in my studio it faces the large postcard of the bald eagle I like very much. (talking of opposites). ;~)

As this thread somehow tunes in with today's word, I wonder, would vegans eat honey or strictly shun anything prepared with honey?

#174828 - 03/18/08 12:32 PM Re: honey bee safari [Re: BranShea]  
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twosleepy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: BranShea
As this thread somehow tunes in with today's word, I wonder, would vegans eat honey or strictly shun anything prepared with honey?


I can't see what problem they would have with honey. Honeybees are free to roam, the honey is extra that they can survive without, it is made from nectar, not any animal product, and no animals are killed or harmed in its production or harvesting. But I am not a vegan, so maybe we will hear from someone who is and can explain why honey is objectionable, if it is at all. :0)

#174829 - 03/18/08 12:38 PM Re: honey bee safari [Re: twosleepy]  
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R'lyeh
Neither am I a vegan, but here's the buzz on honey from a vegan FAQ:

 Quote:
Q. What's the buzz about honey?

A. Many vegans choose to eliminate honey from their diets because they believe honey belongs to the bees, just as cows' milk belongs to the cows. In addition, many people object to the cruelty inherent in beekeeping: some bees are invariably killed when the beekeeper gathers honey, and some beekeepers burn their hives at the end of each year. (link).

My favorite vegan FAQ is whether fellatio is allowed (link).


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
#174830 - 03/18/08 12:39 PM Re: honey bee safari [Re: twosleepy]  
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/sits down to enjoy a big plate of bee steaks.


formerly known as etaoin...
#174833 - 03/19/08 12:25 AM Re: honey bee safari [Re: twosleepy]  
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The Pook Offline
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Tasmania
 Originally Posted By: twosleepy
 Originally Posted By: BranShea
As this thread somehow tunes in with today's word, I wonder, would vegans eat honey or strictly shun anything prepared with honey?


I can't see what problem they would have with honey. Honeybees are free to roam, the honey is extra that they can survive without, it is made from nectar, not any animal product, and no animals are killed or harmed in its production or harvesting. But I am not a vegan, so maybe we will hear from someone who is and can explain why honey is objectionable, if it is at all. :0)


Do Vegans worry about the fact that every time they eat vegetables they are ingesting several insects? I can understand people not wanting to eat pork or chicken or other reasonably intelligent animals because of cruelty in farming practices, but I think talk about insect rights is stretching it a bit.

The question of where their authority comes from for deciding any of this is interesting. Unless they are Theists or are leaving it up to individual conscience ("I just feel this is the right thing for me."), there is no way I can see to get from the "is" to the "ought" if you know what I mean. The "is" being that certain animals produce food for themselves and their offspring. The "ought" being that human beings should not eat those things. Is it also argued that other animals should also not eat things made by those not of their species? (or for that matter, what about predation?). And if not, if it's okay for animals on the grounds that it is "natural", how can you argue that human beings eating these things is not also natural, unless you want to argue that human beings are not animals. Most Theists have no problem from their basis arguing that, but most animal rights people seem to tell us that we are just animals. You can't have it both ways. Either we are and therefore it's natural for us to eat animal products just like other animals do, or we're not animals, we're special in some way. Are they smuggling in assumptions that more properly belong to a Theistic world view?

Where does the Authority come from for the prohibition on eating things that "belong" to other species, even if the eating doesn't harm them? Does it come from Reason? From God? From Conscience? Or is it some kind of quasi-religious new age belief promoted by certain gurus? Or just a rather vague philosophy with no rational basis?

Please don't see this as full frontal attack on Vegans, but I'd just like to understand whether there is a well thought out basis for these beliefs.

#174839 - 03/19/08 03:06 AM Re: honey bee safari [Re: The Pook]  
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twosleepy Offline
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Very good questions, Pook. I have misgivings, also, about the veracity of the last two statements:
 Quote:
...some bees are invariably killed when the beekeeper gathers honey, and some beekeepers burn their hives at the end of each year.


I can't imagine a beekeeper being so careless as to wantonly destroy the source of his/her livelihood! Yes, I can see an occasional accidental death, but then anyone who gets stung by a bee necessarily kills it, too.

The burning of the hives just stumps me completely! Why on earth would a beekeeper destroy all the equipment?!? The only circumstance I can come up with that makes any sense is in the case of contagious disease, and this protects the wild populations as well. In temperate climates beekeepers winter-over their bees, feeding and tending them.

I am not a vegan, but I do have concerns about the treatment of animals (actually, all animals, not just food animals), and I do try to do my part by buying organic, cage-free eggs and the like. It's more expensive, as is most organic produce, but I guess I put my money where my mouth is. I do the same for meat products, and (heaven help me and anyone else trying sort out the whole farmed fish/shrimp mess...) seafood. I try to support those who have ethical practices. Not perfect, but I try! :0)

#174847 - 03/19/08 11:09 AM Re: honey bee safari [Re: twosleepy]  
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Cage-free might mean something but free-range doesn't. The birds can be kept in a small building for the first part of their lives. Producers are allowed to call their birds free-range if they allow the birds out of that building for the last few weeks of their lives. The birds almost invariably choose not to leave the building because the outside world is the devil they don't know.

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