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#169564 08/16/07 04:01 PM
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I am still completely baffled by Citizendium. I had duly signed in with biography and all that, and now I have something to post. However, I can't sign in because it refuses to recognize my user name. Could anyone suggest why

But the biggest problem is learning how, once having signed in, one contributes. The site contains page after page--tens of thousands of words--of introduction; perfatory; explaining everything in minute detail, how to edit; when to link; style requirements, even when to use caps vs lower-case. However, it is not at all apparent how one goes about contributing an article

I'm sure it's in there somewhere, but to find it would require two weeks trudging through the boilerplate. Thus, anyone who has actually done it: Can you explain in 25 words or less how, once having signed in, one goes about contributing an article--thanks all


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Um--on the Main Page, they have a link to "How to get started as an author", here:
Main Page

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Jackie: Thank you for that link. For others with the same problem, from the main page, click again on "How to get...", then "Sandbox"

I've been at it for what seems like several hours already

In "Sandbox", click on "edit". If it doesn't let you in, that may be because it doesn't accept your usual password, but you must get one from Cit's Admin. You're on your own for this

Once having acquired a new password, you will have to go back to "Main" and start over. Please note, however, that if your new password doesn't work, it may be because it contains two successive uppercase V's, which made them look like a W

When you reach "edit" for the second time you will get an error message indicating that you haven't signed in using your new password, whereupon you must again return to "Main", where you will find "user preferences"

You return to Main only to find that there is no "user preferences" link. But there is a "my preferences," which you click on. Here you will have to re-enter your real name and your new password (which by now you had forgotten, and so I hope you had saved it somewhere). Don't forget to click on "Save"

Whereupon you are returned with an error message to the effect that you still gave the wrong password. Going back to the source you magnify it and learn to your dismay that it actually was a W, whereupon you enter it again.

Now however, you still get the same error message. Baffled, you once more have to consult Admin to learn why, whereupon you're advised that using "my preferences" link you can change your password to anything you want, which you then proceed to do, entering the value you use at other sites and which thus are much easier to remember

But now you get an error message requesting your new email address. But you don't have a new one, it's the same as it always was. But nonetheless in the space provided you delete your email address and retype it

Now, though, you get another error message indicating that still you've entered the wrong password, even though it's the one provided by Cit and you copied it exactly as it was given. So again you go back to Admin for further instructions

Whereupon your contact gives up in despair, entirely understandable, providing a link to his site troubleshooter constables@citizendium.org, who we trust will have all the ultimate answers

You're beginning to feel like the Orlando pastor who was lost at the airport for two days

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-languish1807aug18,0,200915.story

Hang in there, more coming soon

Last edited by dalehileman; 08/18/07 03:44 PM.

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I am happy to report that after many unsuccessful trials over a period of several days I was finally able to sign in, confirm my email address, and open the Sandbox edit page with no further error messages

For reasons I don’t understand, the page contained a number of undecipherable messages giving the impression of boilerplate. I assumed I was supposed to delete them, which I did, whereupon I got somebody else’s article, something about politics in the Middle East. So I deleted this also, but then successfully (?) copied my article, Health insurance and the copayment

However, my article had undergone some sort of strange transformation. In this process, two of the lines of the story were enclosed in separate boxes, perhaps due to some sort of incompatibility between Cit's algorithms and those of Microsoft Word, from whence I had procured my article. Nonetheless I was very pleased with myself as in all other respects my article seemed perfectly readable

But alas, when I now click on the link to my article, I find it has been replaced by another error message:

Your user name or IP address has been blocked

I am wondering if anyone else at AWAD has had similar experiences with Citizendium, or is it only me, an old codger apparently on the brink of Alzheimer's and unable to cope with the complexities of modern technology

Hang in there, more coming soon



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Your "article" is at
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Sandbox
(until someone else writes over it). You haven't saved it as a article yet.

If you are intending to post that text as a reply on a discussion page, that's fine. But if you're actually trying to make it an article, I don't think it fits Citizendium's definition of an article either in content or style. Encyclopedias generally aren't made up of personal opinions and anecdotes.

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Myr: So I have been advised. As one of the country's most resoundingly unpublished writers, I hardly consider myself an encyclopedist

But please, tell me again, what's the difference between Citizendium and Wikipedia


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Dale--put Citizendium into the Search page above (just be sure it's the one for this board, not the top one for A.W.A.D.); the first listing by me gives a link to an article that explains it. (I believe it was less than 6 months ago, but you might Search "less than one year" just to be on the safe side.)

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or try this .

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Tsu: Isn't that a link to the same post

Anyhow it still isn't entirely clear what's the difference


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>Isn't that a link to the same post

when I click your (long) link I get an error message, I truncated that string after the post number to get my link, so I assume it ends up at the same place.

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Since you're too lazy to read http://www.citizendium.org/about.html

I'll summarize. On wikipedia (and most other wikis), you can login and edit the wiki as myridon or tsuwm or whatever and be totally anonymous. To edit citizendium, you have to login with a real name and submit a bio. Then, when you submit an article on healthcare, people can go to:
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User:Dale_L._Hileman
and say: "Hey, this guy doesn't know anymore about healthcare than my grandmother's dog. This article has no authority behind it."

Last edited by Myridon; 08/22/07 03:57 PM.
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Myr, thank you for the link, I'm flattered
But I still don't see any substantial difference

Then please do reveal the Truth about health care

Jackie, thanks, I had wondered about the difference between those two Search algorithms


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You want to buy a book on Ford Mustang repair. The bookstore has 3 such books. The books are the same price, same length, similar in quality as far as a non-expert on Ford repairs can tell. So you look at the dust jackets:

Book 1:
Citizendium Press. James A. Johnson. Certified Ford Mechanic for over 20 years. 17 time winner of Ford Service Excellence Award.

Book 2:
Citizendium Press. Dale L. Hileman. BSJ, Univ of Ill. Tech writer. Unsuccessful. Unpublished. Disliked by many. I'm dalehileman@verizon.net - please send me spam. (Blurb form of http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/User:Dale_L._Hileman )

Book 3:
Wikipedia Press. smurfette69.

Which book are you most likely to buy?

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oy. you do pose a tough question, M.

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Regarding my difficulties, including an application for password repeated half-dozen times I had contacted a most patient and helpful Citizendium Administrator, Steve, my latest email to whom follows, while I am hoping perhaps a knowledgeable WS subscriber might further help herewith

Steve: At wits' end I cannot express how embarrassed I am about being unable to log in to Citizendium and regret most acutely the need for continually bothering you like this. I have tried both my preferred password and the new one you recently assigned, both with and without the period after L representing my middle name, but I only get the error message below. As I am very eager to post an article that I believe your readers will find most instructive I do hope you can help me

I have tried all the links "Start here," "Log in," "Start article", etc, and every time I get this same message. Clearly I am still doing something wrong in spite of my credentials as retired electronics engineer, inventor, and writer, with some 17 years experience on the PC and the Web. Perhaps we can do an end run on the algorithm. For instance, suppose you [or a WS participant] register, log in, etc, for me. If you are successful, then, simply provide me a link, hyperlink, or sublink which I can click on and which will instantly get me to the page where I can paste my article. But if you are unsuccessful, then perhaps you can discover much more easily than I, where I have gone wrong

Meantime with your permission I am forwarding this message to several experts in the field; two Information Technicians in the aerospace industry, a couple of retired PC experts, one or two communications specialists in the field of journalism, and two or three engineers familiar with certain aspects of the software industry who may conceivably be able to provide some insight

If it is any help, I have had similar experiences at other sites, and have finally had to concluded that one feature of these sites' software is that they will block any applicant attempting unsuccessfully to log in after a fixed number of successive tries, on the theory that he must be a hacker. Another possibility is that somehow your Log-In algorithm somehow has detected your typographical error and is confused about my middle initial in which case no doubt your programmers may be of some help

.Thank you again for your patience, and best wishes from the Holidays and New Year-Dale HilemanError message cited above:

Your user name or IP address has been blocked.
The block was made by Stephen Ewen. The reason given is seemingly insolvable login problems, will simply recreate account placing a period after middle initial.
* Start of block: 18:23, 20 August 2007
* Expiry of block: infinite
* Intended blockee: Dale L Hileman
You can contact Stephen Ewen or another administrator to discuss the block. You cannot use the 'email this user' feature unless a valid email address is specified in your account preferences and you have not been blocked from using it. Your current IP address is 71.105.173.130, and the block ID is #1120. Please include either or both of these in any queries

Earlier messages:

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Ewen [mailto:ewenste@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:28 PM
To: Dale Hileman
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: blocked]]

My error, your username is

Dale L. Hileman


Dale Hileman wrote:
> Steve again thank you for your patience but before I get involved again, my
> middle initial is L not T but let me know if I should use T anyhow-Dale
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Ewen [mailto:ewenste@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:50 AM
> To: Dale Hileman
> Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: blocked]]
>
>
> Did you get the new password?
> **********If it is ........, yes
> Login with
>
> username: Dale T. Hileman
>
> ...and the password the system should have just sent you.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>


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In hope of shedding further light on my quandary, herewith my last email to a most helpful and patient Administrator, Steve, at Citizendium, in the hope that a knowledgeable WS participant can be of further help

Steve: At wits' end I cannot express how embarrassed I am about being unable to log in to Citizendium and regret most acutely the need for continually bothering you like this. I have tried both my preferred password and the new one you recently assigned (the sixth one I have been assigned and was unsuccessful with), both with and without the period after L representing my middle name, but I only get the error message below. As I am very eager to post an article that I believe your readers will find most instructive I do hope you can help me

I have tried all the links "Start here," "Log in," "Start article", etc, and every time I get this same message. Clearly I am still doing something wrong. Perhaps we can do an end run on the algorithm. For instance, suppose you register, log in, etc, for me. If you are successful, then, simply provide me a link, hyperlink, sublink or susage that I can click on and which will instantly get me to the page where I can paste my article. But if you are unsuccessful, then perhaps you can discover much more easily than I, where I have gone wrong

Meantime with your permission I am forwarding this message to several experts in the field; two Information Technicians in the aerospace industry, a couple of retired PC experts, one or two communications specialists in the field of journalism, my very hip correspondents at WS, and two or three engineers familiar with certain aspects of the software industry who may conceivably be able to provide some insight

If it is any help, notwithstanding my credentials as retired engineer, inventor, and writer, after some 17 years using the PC and the Web, I have had similar experiences at other sites, and have finally had to concluded that one feature of these sites' software is that they will block any applicant attempting unsuccessfully to log in after a fixed number of successive tries, on the theory that he must be a hacker

Another possibility is that your Log-In algorithm somehow has detected your typographical error and is confused about my middle initial in which case no doubt your programmers may be of some help

Thank you again for your patience, and best wishes from the Holidays and New Year-Dale Hileman

Error message:

Your user name or IP address has been blocked.
The block was made by Stephen Ewen. The reason given is seemingly insolvable login problems, will simply recreate account placing a period after middle initial.
* Start of block: 18:23, 20 August 2007
* Expiry of block: infinite
* Intended blockee: Dale L Hileman
You can contact Stephen Ewen or another administrator to discuss the block. You cannot use the 'email this user' feature unless a valid email address is specified in your account preferences and you have not been blocked from using it. Your current IP address is 71.105.173.130, and the block ID is #1120. Please include either or both of these in any queries

Earlier exchanges:

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Ewen [mailto:ewenste@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:28 PM
To: Dale Hileman
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: blocked]]

My error, your username is

Dale L. Hileman


Dale Hileman wrote:
> Steve again thank you for your patience but before I get involved again, my
> middle initial is L not T but let me know if I should use T anyhow-Dale
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Ewen [mailto:ewenste@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:50 AM
> To: Dale Hileman
> Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Re: blocked]]
>
>
> Did you get the new password?
> **********If it is ........, yes
> Login with
>
> username: Dale T. Hileman
>
> ...and the password the system should have just sent you.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>


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yes! posting this gallimaufry twice will surely do the trick!!

-joe (a dumfounded WS participant) friday

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tsu: There is apparently a glitch in WS' algorithm where if two successive posts are identical an attempt to delete one of them deletes both. However, I am not at all averse if Admin deletes one and I hope they are able to do so

Edited to surmise that It's possible that the original post found itself on page 2. But rechecking my post I was on page 1 and therefore re-posted it. Others I am sure have encountered the same apparent glitch

If you should be tempted to deride my competence upon this issue, I invite you to consider that Admin on another site I'm not sure protocol allows me to mention, is at this very moment performing a housekeeping one of the object of which is to allow all posts in a single thread to be displayed as a single page just as done here by clicking on the sausage "all"

Last edited by dalehileman; 12/17/07 07:48 PM.

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Jackie I'm not sure just how long ago it was as I'm susceptible to a form of mini-stroke which although not affecting my general strength and health degrades my recall and thus I hope you can all forgive me for such temporary lapses

Incidentally another possibility accounting for the repeated post cited by tzu is the inability of the typical site's algorithms to instantly refresh and that therefore the "all" didn't appear on the page I had checked and so I was unaware of the second, repeated, post

I hope that the most censorious participants in this excellent site will forgive me for my many transgressions and accept my most heartfelt wishes for a most happy Holiday Season


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