You are not logged in. [Log In] Wordsmith.org Forums Q&A about words A seasonal enquiry Register Forums Calendar Active Threads Search Forum Help

Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4 #158508 - 04/20/06 12:57 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 I guess it depends on how you define redundant. If the same information is presented more than once, it's redundant in my book. #158509 - 04/20/06 01:00 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Jackie Jackie   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Louisville, Kentucky I didn't know that redundant carried the connotation of uselessness. Duplication, yes, but not automatically useless...? That's pretty awful, given that you Brit-speakers say that someone who has been what we call laid off has been made redundant. #158510 - 04/20/06 01:07 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,230 sjmaxq Carpal Tunnel sjmaxq   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,230 Te Ika a Maui Quote: I didn't know that redundant carried the connotation of uselessness. Duplication, yes, but not automatically useless...? That's pretty awful, given that you Brit-speakers say that someone who has been what we call laid off has been made redundant. Well, here's what M-W, a USn dikshunry if I'm not mistaken, offers for "redundant": Quote: a : exceeding what is necessary or normal : SUPERFLUOUS b : characterized by or containing an excess; specifically : using more words than necessary c : characterized by similarity or repetition *a group of particularly redundant brick buildings* d chiefly British : no longer needed for a job and hence laid off The definitions above are the ones that I'm familiar with, and all carry more than merely a sense of duplication. They all suggest an element of being unnecessary. Hence the employment sense - "we have 4 cleaners and need only three. One of you is redundant." It's really the same meaning as in the definitions listed before it, afaict. noho ora mai http://maxqnzs.com/References.html #158511 - 04/20/06 01:10 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,230 sjmaxq Carpal Tunnel sjmaxq   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,230 Te Ika a Maui Onelook has both the AHD and the compact OED also offering "more than is needed, superfluous" as among the primary meanings of "redundant". noho ora mai http://maxqnzs.com/References.html #158512 - 04/20/06 01:18 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Jackie Jackie   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Louisville, Kentucky To me, not needed does not equate to useless. Just my opinion. EDIT: does not always equate to useless. #158513 - 04/20/06 01:30 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,230 sjmaxq Carpal Tunnel sjmaxq   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,230 Te Ika a Maui Quote: To me, not needed does not equate to useless. Just my opinion. EDIT: does not always equate to useless. I'm sorry, you have me confused. I haven't said that "redundant" meant "useless". The definitions I quoted all say that "redundant" means "more than is necessary, superfluous". My original question was whether that is actually true of a linguistic redundancy if it serves a useful purpose, specfically, removing ambiguity. If "redundant" means "not necessary, superfluous", and if a word's presence serves to elminiate ambiguity, then it is in fact necessary, not superfluous. I am unable to fathom how the concept of "uselessness" got dragged into this. Even in the occupational setting I gave as an example, saying that a person is redundant for a particular task doesn't mean that he or she is useless. I certainly never said or implied an equivalence between "redundant" and "useless", and so don't understand why it keeps coming up here. noho ora mai http://maxqnzs.com/References.html #158514 - 04/20/06 01:41 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Jackie Jackie   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Mar 2000 Posts: 11,613 Louisville, Kentucky I jumped to that conclusion from your saying It just got me wondering whether such a device really deserves to be called redundant if it is actually serving a useful purpose. If something is not actually serving a useful purpose, I thought you meant that it was useless. Sorry; apparently that was an incorrect assumption. #158515 - 04/20/06 01:45 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,230 sjmaxq Carpal Tunnel sjmaxq   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,230 Te Ika a Maui Quote: I jumped to that conclusion from your saying It just got me wondering whether such a device really deserves to be called redundant if it is actually serving a useful purpose. If something is not actually serving a useful purpose, I thought you meant that it was useless. Sorry; apparently that was an incorrect assumption. Indeed it was. It is very easy for something to be unnecessary without being useless. noho ora mai http://maxqnzs.com/References.html #158516 - 04/20/06 03:29 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd   Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh And redundancy is important in language. Has something to do with information theory. Ceci n'est pas un seing. #158517 - 04/20/06 03:54 AM Re: Minggu is also the word for week   Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,379 inselpeter Pooh-Bah inselpeter   Pooh-Bah Joined: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,379 New York City Interesting, Max. I'd always thought of "redundant" as meaning repetitious, not superfluous. Repetition, then, does not necessarily involve superfluity; so that, as you say, it is not necessarily redundant. Hmm. Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4 Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------   Information and announcements   Q&A about words   Wordplay and fun   Words and languages in schools   Miscellany   Weekly Themes   Looking for (writers, speakers, ...) (Old) Weekly themes. (have been consolidated into a single forum above) ------   Words from medicine   Beheading words   Meta-words   Words from classical mythology   Animal Safari   Words with unusual etymologies   Eponyms or words derived from people's names.   Loanwords from German   English as a global language Print Thread Switch to Threaded Mode View Profile Send Private Message View Homepage Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message View Homepage Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message View Homepage Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message View Homepage Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message View Homepage Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message View Homepage Follow User Show Forum Posts View Profile Send Private Message Follow User Show Forum Posts Forum Statistics Forums16 Topics13,878 Posts223,863 Members9,013 Most Online3,341 Dec 9th, 2011 Newest Members Ahmed, KathrynH, Waqar_Ali, brecht, Akintola 9013 Registered Users Who's Online Now 0 registered members (), 45 guests, and 3 spiders. Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod Top Posters(30 Days) wofahulicodoc 52 LukeJavan8 23 A C Bowden 19 Top Posters(All Time) wwh 13,858 Faldage 13,803 Jackie 11,613 tsuwm 10,538 LukeJavan8 8,961 wofahulicodoc 7,456 Buffalo Shrdlu 7,210 AnnaStrophic 6,511 Wordwind 6,296 of troy 5,400

Default Style BlackNTan Drab eBay GooG v2 infopop new dark new light original dark original stock rounded corners Slate snow sunny dropshadow theblues Touch Of Grey UBB.threads UBB.threads - Dark UBB.threads - Light UBBCentral UBBCentral - Crimson UBBCentral - Lime UBBCentral - Marshmallow UBBCentral - Mocha UBBCentral - Zen ubbthreads ubbthreads-dark show/hide columns on this page Forum Rules · Mark All Read Contact Us · Wordsmith.org · Top