Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
I
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
I
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Bryan Garner gives eight solutions in Chapter 7 of "The Elements of Legal Style."


Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
I’m not thrilled about “staffed/unstaffed” because that implies that there should be more than one person sitting there and all of them were out. Staff represents a group of people.

I’d see staff being used in the case where somebody walked in to an office with several desks, and there was nobody around. Then saying the place was unstaffed would work.

Perhaps not politically correct, but I do not feel diminished in any way by the words manned or unmanned. It’s one of those words that, to me, does not specifically imply that the person was male, like the word mailman does.



Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
>It’s one of those words that, to me, does not specifically imply that the person was male, like the word mailman does.

boy(!), howdy -- that's an awfully narrow and sharp (not to say cheesy) distinction.


Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
In reply to:

Juliet

Come, civil night,
Thou sober-suited matron, all in black,
And learn me how to lose a winning match,
Played for a pair of stainless maidenhoods.
Hood my unmanned blood, bating in my cheeks,
With thy black mantle till strange love grow bold,
Think true love acted simple modesty.
Come, night; come, Romeo; come, thou day in night;
For thou wilt lie upon the wings of night
Whiter than new snow upon a raven's back.

Unmanned here means untamed. Nice usage of the verb to learn, too.


I always assumed it referred to the fact that she was still a virgin, and all that messy stuff with bloodied sheets and such.


Bingley



Bingley
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
B
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
B
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,055
>It’s one of those words that, to me, does not specifically imply that the person was male, like the word mailman does.

>>boy(!), howdy -- that's an awfully narrow and sharp (not to say cheesy) distinction.

Well, I kind of understand the reasoning - this is where you come down to the crux of the matter. I mean, I personally don't think too much of gender neutral language if it ends up as clunky 'he/she' formations and no matter what people say about the plural pronouns being fine it does *not sound better than just using the singular male to me.
At least in this case too, there doesn't seem to be an obvious way around the problem. In other cases, I've heard of mixing pronouns, but it isn't very popular; certainly not in technical texts! I also read a book which used male phrasing throughout but commented in the introduction that this was in no way meant to discriminate against the other sex, but rather was chosen simply becuase it was simple. That approach worked in that case, I think. Be that as it may, anyone involved in writing publicised English texts has to grapple with genders whether they like it or not. I do wonder how things are managed in other languages. English certainly seems to be an exception in its thoroughness as far as I can tell, and a little hyper-PC compared to other languages, is it not?


Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
I
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
I
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
>>personally, I don't think too much of gender-neutral language<<

But many readers do. If the object is to communicate, it is wise not to alienate them. This is not to endorse an over-indulgence in pcese, but considerations of gender do not obscure and, in fact, have merit.

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
a lot of mainline Protestant churches re-wrote their hymnals and other service books in the last couple of decades to eliminate gender-specific language. I'm all for it. we do it for future generations.



formerly known as etaoin...
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
all that messy stuff with bloodied sheets

The monologue perhaps, but I was typing about the use of the word unmanned. (The Latin virgo 'maiden, virgin' is related to vir 'man' and English were as in werewolf or weregeld.) Unmanned for deflowered is kind of a stretch, though.



Ceci n'est pas un seing.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
whoops, came out as a double post.

Bingley


Bingley
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
No, no, you misunderstand me. I was thinking of unmanned here equalling undeflowered.

Bingley


Bingley
Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 302 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5