|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
In a private conversation, Jo mentioned donning a jumper– and I realized, of course that she was putting on what I would call a pull over sweater–. Since to me a jumper is a open necked, sleeveless, deep arm holed dress. More commonly worn by young girls, you might occasional find a nice one, in wool, with a matching jacket, being worn by a business woman. In all cases, you would wear something under a jumper–
When I was in elementary school, we wore blue wool jumpers, with deep scoop necks, and white blouses with peter pan collars. And it got me thinking...
Here is a list of clothing, read through the list– I am sure there a things I missed. It is more heavily loaded with american terms– forgive me
add to it or
pick a few to "define"–
As I constructed the list– I thought, oh every one will know and agree on this– and then thought again, and realize some of these things might not be known to jazz or nemo or xara– and they might add some things that I will see and say what?
But once defined, oh– I call it an X, not a Y..(and if they where my children, they would roll their eyes, and say–you are so totally outdated!– but here its safe!) And some like jumper, knicker, flannels, suspenders– I know have very different meanings depending on location.
anorak
ascot
bandana
bermudas's
braces
bubuska
caftan
cape
cardigan
cat suit
clam diggers
cover all's
culottes
dress
dresser
eton jacket
flannels
floods
frock
galoshes
garters
gator's
jerkin
jersey
jumpsuit
kerchief
knee highs
knickers
long johns
mac
mocs
models coat
monkey suit
mu-mu
mukluk
muscle shirt
nehru jacket
panties
parka
pea coat
pinafore
pinny
plus fours
pullover
romper
sarong
serape
shawl
shirtwaist
shrug
ski jacket
skort
slicker
smock
stockings
stocks
sun suit
suspenders
sweats
trainers
trousers
union suits
vest
wellies
whites
wrapper
most of this is outer clothing–but there is no reason to leave it at that– when I was 13 or so, boys the same age would tease about "an over the shoulder boulder holder". Is that a local mocking term– or did young boys everywhere tease young girls with the same term?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393 |
Well being male I can only discern five kinds of garment in total... no wait a minute, shoes are different from socks, aren't they? Six then.
To me:-
jumper (what I say) = pullover = sweater = guernsey = jersey;
pants = panties = knickers, but also pants = trousers;
anorak = parka;
vest = singlet (I say both indifferently), but also aware that vest = waistcoat;
suspenders = braces, but also suspenders = the antique stud-on-elastic thing that attached stockings to some kind of female undergarment and that I don't know another synonym for;
cape = cloak;
off-the-shoulder boulder-holder = gownless evening-strap
and about half the words on your list are unidentifiable to me (ascot, bubuska, cat suit, clam digger, dresser, floods, gators, jump suit, knee highs, models coat, monkey suit, mukluk, muscle shirt, pea coat, romper, serape, shirtwaist, shrug, slicker, stocks, sun suit, sweats, union suits, whites, wrapper).
And if that seems to cut down the possibilities a bit, I have to confess I'm sitting here in a lap-lap and woad.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 197
member
|
|
member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 197 |
I noticed a few that were not on your list.
bloomers is what my Grandmother wore instead of underwear. My dad wears (says) bloomers also, but only if he's trying to embarrass one of the kids in front of our friends.
boxers are underwear for men and pajamas for women.
a poncho is a big square cloth with a hole in the middle for your head. my mom is the only person I know who LOVES ponchos.
you mentioned flannels. are they pajamas? I have flannel pajamas. I also have a type of shirt made of flannel that I simply refer to as a flannel.
is a hadnkerchief the same a s a kerchief? Seems as if I remember hearing kerchief in old movies. I was never sure exactly what they meant. my dictionary says a kerchief is a head covering, but also says it is a syn. for handkerchief. my dad used to carry a handkerchief for blowing his nose. (maybe he had sinus problems? i don't think he does now.) I think ladies might carry a handkerchief if they were expecting to be crying, so that they have something to dry their eyes.
a petticoat and a slip are similar items. the slip is worn under a dress or skirt to keep it from clinging to your legs. a petticoat is fuller to make the dress stand out more. When i was younger i square danced and clogged. we wore petticoats under our dresses. we also wore pettipants which were ruffled undergarments somewhere between shorts and underpants which are meant to be seen when you twirl around and your skirt flies out.
>>>every one will know and agree on this- and then thought again, and realize some of these things might not be known to jazz or nemo or xara<<<
quite right. there are many of your words which I haven't the foggiest idea what they might mean.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 544 |
How about slacks? Strikes me as the kind of word that might not translate well to other Anglophone nations.
Are clam diggers pants that only go to above the ankle? If so, we always used to call them high-waters (because in a flood you'd keep your pants dry...).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
High waters would be floods to me
(What is there a flood? = why are your pants/trousers so short?)
Clam diggers came to just below the knee-- but the same idea-- you could walk into the water (and hunt for clams) with out getting hems of pants wet..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
off-the-shoulder-boulder-holder
I would have thought this was the garment called, in German, stopsemfromfloppin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Xara said In reply to:
a petticoat and a slip are similar items. the slip is worn under a dress or skirt to keep it from clinging to your legs. a petticoat is fuller to make the dress stand out more.
Yes, slips are so passe they need to be defined! women of a "certain age" still wear them.. but would call a petticoat a fancy under skirt-- really meant to be seen (as you indicated), but would if i wanted the skirt of a dress or outfit to stand out (look fuller) i think i would want a crinoline. this is a full/flouncey slip that had netting to make a skirt billow out-- and was horrible itchy--every woman hated them-- and little girls even more so! and a proper young lady would blush  if hers was seen!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
yes-- you got the idea-
> in German, stopsemfromfloppin
I almost missed it--I though at first you where doing serious german!
Oh we are all in for some wet noodle lashing when Jackie gets back from the big city! with any luck, she'll be exhausted, shake her head, and let it all pass...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 46
newbie
|
|
newbie
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 46 |
In reply to:
when I was 13 or so, boys the same age would tease about "an over the shoulder boulder holder". Is that a local mocking term– or did young boys everywhere tease young girls with the same term?
I happened to be living in New Zealand between the ages of 11 and 13, and the boys who plagued my existence way down there used exactly the same phrase, even though "boulder" was rather hyperbolic at the time (and, sadly, still is )
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Zild, huh? And you are now living in the Uttermost West (and perhaps even the Undying Lands which means you are not of Numenor). Makes a change from the Uttermost East, I guess. Very informative, Nemo. Where (not in Middle-Earth) is the place you call Tol Eressea? 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 46
newbie
|
|
newbie
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 46 |
In reply to:
Very informative, Nemo. Where (not in Middle-Earth) is the place you call Tol Eressea?
You're absolutely right, Capital Kiwi, Eressëa is not in Middle Earth, and hasn't been since the Valar sought Illuvatar's aid in defeating Melkor. As to your other question, do you really think that a lady who lists her email address as nemo@nirgenmdswo.nunca is likely to answer that? Perhaps I am the reincarnation of Greta Garbo, or perhaps, like her, I just vant to be ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Hmmm. From your email address, it's Never Land. I'm assuming that Tol Eressea = Never Land and you're therefore Peter Pan in drag. Speaking, um, Swedish? They say that Garbo tried out for the part of Galadriel in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy, but they turned her down because she was dead and wanted a closed coffin as well as a closed set ...  I hope the witness protection programme works for you! 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
Helen Good list. Some more for you (including some obvious ones?) Gown Jockeys Shorts Sou'wester Spats Sweater And just so we get the originals right: mac = Mackintosh wellies = Wellingtons = gumboots As some of the others have said, some of the words are completely new to me - and I've love to discover the definitions or usages. And yes, in Bombay it was common (in boy circles) to refer to bras as 'over the shoulder boulder holders', though we wouldn't mention it to girls (get our faces slapped and out mothers called, that would). cheer the sunshine warrior
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393 |
cuirass, greave, codpiece, wimple, liripipe, bascinet, camail, tabard, ruff...
toga, himation, peplon, fillet, garland...
loincloth, penis sheath...
tarboosh, fez, stetson, akubra, propeller beanie...
wig, lion costume, diving bell...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Shanks! shame on you! Your jockey shorts are obvious! This side of the pond civilized people tend to wear pants or trousers, or chinos, or cords, or something over them!
And which ones don't you know? since i am not sure if all the definiation would be the same..
ie, i always thought a mukluk was outer where-- variation an a parka, ski jacket, anorak-- but my M-W 10th says it s a boot or shoe ! (NYTimes Crossword last week had clue of "Kind of Parka-- and mukluk was the answer-- so i am not alone in thinking it a jacket type garment...)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130 |
Ahhh... mukluks!
I remember receiving a pair for Christmas in the mid sixties. They were heavy woolen slippers with leather soles. A sort of sock/slipper hybrid. I always assumed the origin was from the Inuit, or as we called them back in the day, good ol' Eskimoes!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 393 |
Well, a quick look through the only Inuktitut dictionary I can find on the Web fails to reveal mukluk. On the other hand, it fails to mention anorak, parka, kayak, and igloo too. I do learn that a man's sealskin parka is nattiq and a man's caribou parka is qulittaq. FWIW.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Well M-W10th says seal skin outer boots, worn over several pairs of socks--
but yes, when i was a kid, they did have these socks, with a leather sole.. (fake leather, and you could wash the whole deal) called mukluks....
what do you think of for the single word
flannels-- ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144 |
Of Troy asked...
what do you think of for the single word
flannels-- ?
_____________________________________________
Definitely a form of trouser - usually in charcoal grey.
As for your 'jumper', I think that's probably what we wore to school as 'pinafores', and would be positively indecent without something underneath!
Another good word is 'frock' - quite commonly used amongst some of my friends, but I tried writing it in an assignment recently and my lecturer scrawled 'outdated' alongside it. Personally though, I rather like it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
rkay said: As for your 'jumper', I think that's probably what we wore to school as 'pinafores', and would be positively indecent without something underneath!
Interesting. As a fellow Londoner (and erstwhile marketing bod too), a 'jumper' has always seemed to me to be similar to a pullover. I did notice it being used for what I might call 'dungarees' in the US, but hadn't realised that this was somewhat similar to the UK meaning as well.
the sunshine (way behind the times?) warrior
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144 |
eeek! Confusion! Sorry!
Shanks, ref: jumper, I'm with you all the way - it's what we would also call a sweater or pullover.
What I meant is that I think Of Troy's use of 'jumper' is what we would call a 'pinafore'. It's not a meaning that I've ever heard of in the UK.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Jumpers is usually used to describe the one-piece, straight, navy-blue dresses that little girls put over a blouse to go to school, however, we also use it to describe that one-piece garment that little babies wear.
It looks exactly like a pyjama with a zipper down the front with the leg parts closed at the bottom in the shape of feet. It is made of day time material and colours to distinguish from pyjamas.
One item that has a great quantity of names is the flic-flacs...those soft rubber/plastic floppy sandles that cost next to nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Franky Francophone commented: One item that has a great quantity of names is the flic-flacs...those soft rubber/plastic floppy sandles that cost next to nothing.Which are called "jandals" in Zild (a brand name, from memory) and "thongs" in Australia. "Thongs" is one of those words which has three meanings depending on how you use it. Singular use means g-string or laced leather vest pull-strings. Plural means "flip flops", "flic-flacs" or "jandals" (or a someone who wears two g-strings at once, I guess!). If asked to guess, I would have thought "flic-flacs" were anti-aircraft guns used to cull policemen ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 144 |
jumper....that one-piece garment that little babies wear.
___________________________________
Interesting - I've never heard them called 'jumpers'. In my family we've always called them babygro(w)'s.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
years ago when I suffered from athletes' foot, my doctor told me to wear jandals as much as possible, to allow sunlight and air to help cure this fungal disease. I also decided to spend a good deal of the summer at the beach. By the end of summer, I had gone through two pairs of jandals without any significant improvement to my feet.
Ted goes away whistling, "The thong is ended, but the malady lingers on."
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
TEd, I continue to marvel at the compassion shown by those around you ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Oooo, on a more positive foot note ...do any ladies remember bobby-socks? That is what my mom used to call those cute little socks that, when folded onto themselves for about two inches, rose just slightly over your ankles. They were white, fresh and crisp of course. The name stuck with me and I still call them that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130 |
Locally (Northern Virginia), our crew used to call 'em flip-flops and thongs. Military kids (from God knows where) called 'em zorries. Haven't heard that term since.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
>TEd, I continue to marvel at the compassion shown by those around you ...
Yeah, the people in this place are pretty nice. They usually take my gag off to allow me to eat, but the straitjacket stays on except for my two hours of exercize time. You should see me eat with that thing on. Most people around here frequently say things like, "When it comes to eating, you have to hand it to Ted."
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
They usually take my gag off to allow me to eat, but the straitjacket stays on except for my two hours of exercize time.
And how do you type while wearing a straitjacket?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
>And how do you type while wearing a straitjacket? It's just a jacket, not an overcoat !!
TEd
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
One item that has a great quantity of names is the flic-flacs...those soft rubber/plastic floppy sandles that cost next to nothingAlso known as flip-flops, surfer sandals or, in Hawaii called slippers pronounced slippahs. wow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Military kids (from God knows where) called 'em zorries. Haven't heard that term since.
They were probably stationed in Japan!
Zori is the Japanese for the sandal.
(At least that is what my Japanese neighbor and friend told me when we lived next door to each other in Hawaii.)
Sometimes people call them Tabis but tabi are the fabric, ankle-height "socks" with big toe covering separate from the other toes. That's so the thong of the zori slips in. When you remove the Zori upon entering a house, your feet are still covered by tabi.
In Japan tabi can be plain black or white or any other fabric. Some QUITE expensive.
wow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130 |
Thanks, wow.
As I recall, most of the military kids I knew had spent some time in the Far East.
Zori makes perfect sense now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
>And how do you type while wearing a straitjacket?
It's just a jacket, not an overcoat!!TED!!! I suppose the saying from Jo's contest list would be appropriate here (the one I can't say, that is). But I still say, you're entitled to boast all you want-- thong ended but malady lingered on! Oh, ha, ha! And--flannels are long underwear: one-piece. Though certain slacks are called that, also. Bel--you're too young to have worn bobby-socks! shanks--dungarees are what blue jeans used to be called. Bob--I love your squirmin' German! nemo--not to worry about a lack of "boulders", my dear. The true you will be known and loved, no matter the packaging.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Jackie sympathises: nemo--not to worry about a lack of "boulders", my dear.
The true you will be known and loved, no matter the
packaging.... or the lack can be corrected by the application of silicone (sic) science, of course ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 46
newbie
|
|
newbie
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 46 |
In reply to:
... or the lack can be corrected by the application of silicone (sic) science, of course ...
I'm sure the thought was well-intentioned, Capital Kiwi, but I'd rather not indulge in surgical self-mutilation to conform to an artificial, phallocentric perception of female beauty and the importance thereof.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Nemo, I have no expectations as all my illusions have long since been shattered on the rock of harsh reality. Personally, I completely fail to conform to the female concept of male beauty and have absolutely no intention (or ability, for that matter) to correct the lack. I stopped worrying about it around about age 20. I merely point out possible solutions. Plus have a bit of fun with a word at the same time ...
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 460 |
I can remember wearing a garment called a "liberty bodice" when I was a little fella in Britain during the early/mid-forties. Anyone shed some light on this?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
a "liberty bodice" when I was a little fella in Britain during the early/mid-forties.
Welcome back, Dearest! Could it have been a vest that somehow supported the WWII effort? Perhaps it had a picture on it, or was made of some alternative material so the "real" stuff could go to the soldiers?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Hello PaulB. I remember wearing a liberty bodice too when I was very young (early sixties). It was warm and worn as well as a vest in the winter, I remember it being a light brown or dark cream. I found a couple of websites which said that it was fleecy and designed to keep one warm. I think it was made predominantly for girls. I've seen a couple that were more like corsets but I don't remember it having any "bones". http://removedhttp://www.harboro.ndirect.co.uk/harboro.htmFoornote: I've just looked at the first website that I had listed again, following Jackie's post (next one down). I had searched on "liberty bodice" - and only looked at the information given about where they were made. I've decided that it is a distinctly dodgy site, so I've amended my post and removed the reference.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
I can't stand it, I can't stand it! My God! Jo, that first website! My God! The cruelty! Did you, did you, go to the home page and read, and read, that first letter?
That one, from that God-awful sadist who, who, of all things, is a teacher?? To say nothing of those "Three Letters From School". That unspeakable
wretch, that woman, that first one--forced her
nephew into complete, total, and utter humiliation--subjected him to it for a full half-hour--and then, and then, even more unbelievably, bragged about it!!
Oh! Oh! Why, oh why, do adults so often act as though
might is right, when it comes to dealing with children??
That woman has NO CLUE as to what she taught that child;
that goes for all the other sadistic teachers/parents/parent substitutes, too. What a child learns from that kind of treatment is, first, fear.
Obedience out of fear is not what a child should be raised by. That child learned that he could be forced to do something. He learned nothing about realistic expectations, and discipline in its classical sense: that is, why certain things are and are not done. It is also VERY likely that he learned to be vengeful--I doubt that this is what that...that...ooh!...person had in mind! A beloved friend told me of being forced into a humiliating situation in front of his class--it still haunted him three decades later. The feelings of powerlessness cause indescribable harm.
Well, now you have all seen me in pretty much full rant.
It's going to take me a while to get over those letters.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
My God! Jo, that first website! My God!
I didn't even get to see it. . .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Well Jazzo, I could say ... "you just should have got there quicker" but then there is no way that I would say something like that!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
I didn't even get to see it. . .
Sweetie, it was about adults deciding to punish schoolboys
by making them wear girls' clothes in front of people. No
major deal--unless you were the boy. But I strongly imagine that the classmates were horribly uncomfortable as well, underneath the laughter they knew the adult expected.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
How old were these children? I'd say the severity of the "child abuse" depends on the age of the children. In Shakespeare's time, men practically dressed like women anyway, and I think I can safely say that I know people my age would wear a dress to school just because they thought it was amusing
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
JazzOctopus remarkedHow old were these children? I'd say the severity of the "child abuse" depends on the age of the children. In Shakespeare's time, men practically dressed like women anyway, and I think I can safely say that I know people my age would wear a dress to school just because they thought it was amusing
Ay, there's the rub, Jazz. What makes it abusive is the element of compulsion, as punishment. If someone wants to engage in a little cross-dressing, that's obviously very different from being forced to do so as an act of public humiliation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
>a little cross-dressing
On a second read I thought it was more of, lets say, a .. fantasy site, that's why I removed the link. Whoever put it there deserved (and probably got) a good spanking.
Nuf said?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,981 |
Here's another discussion of "liberty bodices". I'd be careful of searching on this item, the more modern versions seem to have something to do with bondage! I don't remember it too well as I was quite young. I think it was suggested to my parents as I suffered from bronchitis and any extra layers (in the cold winters before central heating) were thought to be good. I don't remember the bit to attach the woolly stockings and I don't suppose Paul wore them either! --- Here's the reference: "I've suddenly recalled a somewhat peculiar girls' undergarment, which was called a liberty bodice. I know I had at least one in my undies collection, during early post-war years, but all I vaguely remember about it was that it was worn over the vest, was a lot shorter than a vest, had rubber buttons up the front, and a suspender-like gizmo dangling at the sides, at about the waistline, with a rubber button at the end, as though to anchor it to something (goodness knows what). I remember it as being miserably uncomfortable to wear. but perhaps the only ones I had were a size too small for me. I never wore one consistently, but it was there in the drawer and now and again I was persuaded to give it another chance. Eventually they disappeared." http://homepages.pavilion.co.uk/enigma/evac17.htm---
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004 |
All this discussion of 'liberty bodices' throws my mind back (only about 4 years or so) when the V&A had a great exhibition on British fashion through the years. (I bought the book for my mother, who is something of a seamstress, but I went to the exhibition out of sheer fascination anyway - even though I'm not into fashion at all.) One of the loveliest (oh what a twee word) was the 'Liberty suit', a tweedy, thick woollen construction that I wished existed today - I'd love to wear something of the slightly moth-eaten-looking brown shade. I believe the 'Liberty' range was used to designate a series of clothes made rather cheaply in the rationing era (WW2 and just after)? Can anyone confirm this? (No Google matches...)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Shanks, your thoughts about "liberty" line of clothing being something for the war effort reminded me about an odd anomaly-- women's shirts and wars-- Women skirts get shorter during times of war. During WWII, (and WWI) skirts got shorter and shorter- after the end of the war-- Dior "New Look" dictated almost ankle length skirts (1947) During the US Vietnam conflict-- Miniskirt where the rage. With extended "peace"-- women are once again wearing longer and longer skirts.
This anomaly is pretty long standing-- woman clothing get sheerer, or shorter, or deeper necklines-- in some ways more revealing than before or after the time of war.
There is a mountain of speculation as to why, one theory is, when women perceive a shortage of men, they wear more revealing clothing... the better to attract one of the few remaining men. During peace-- no shortage of men, not as much need to attract.. skirts are and clothing in general is less revealing.. (with exceptions like Jennifer Lopez)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Wartime clothing
You don't think it has to do with saving material in wartime? In the US, prior to WWII, most men's suits were 3-piece (with vest), pleated trousers with cuffs and fairly generously cut. Once the war started, there were no more vests (they went out of fashion until the late 60's), trousers were plain, no pleats or cuffs, and suits were cut narrower. After the war, the fashion in men's suits was those horrible looking hugely cut suits, mostly double-breasted, that you see in old pictures or newsreels.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130
member
|
|
member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 130 |
Anyone familiar with the "Zoot Suit Riots" in California during the Second World War? Black kids, Latinos and white hipsters wearing floppy, exaggerated clothing were regularly set upon by military types. Apparently they thought their dress was un-American and an affront to the war effort and austerity programs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Well, maybe--only there was no austerity during the VN war– when mini skirts were the rage. And the style (short lived) during the Napoleonic wars was for women to wear gauze dresses, made even sheerer by wearing them wet-- the 1800's idea of a wet t-shirt contest. Unfortunately, this was done in cold, damp England-- and women found fashion had its price-- pneumonia! Some PM lost his wife to pneumonia after she went to some ball in one of these fashionable gowns..
I don't think women wore gauze for austerity...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
gauze dresses
O matchlessly beautiful one, you are flitting around what many would say is a true point, but I believe you are way off in this instance. During the Napoleonic War period, classical, esp. Roman, styles were all the rage (see pictures by Ingres and J.L David) and the gauze dresses were an attempt to imitate the filmy clothing shown on classical statues (genuine representations) and on paintings (putative representations).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
Well, I think that most Canadians that you might ask would define a mukluk as something like a moccasin, but built like a boot...it goes higher up the leg, and is obviously warmer, is made of leather, has fur on it, sometimes tassels, and is worn in the wintertime. Then I checked my Oxford Dictionary of Canadian English (I don't know the cute abbreviation for this) and it agrees with me (of course, it's at home, I'm at school, so I can't give the word-for-word definition). Also my husband had the same definition for it, when I asked him.
People actually wear these things, not just up north, but in the big cities - though not often, and generally for cultural events (such as the Festival du Voyageur, a Francophone festival which takes place in Winnipeg every February)! My mother even had a pair stashed in the basement, which I never was anyone wear because there was a hole in one of them.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,315
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
253
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
