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#145082 - 07/16/05 01:57 PM Is it "progress"?  
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plutarch Offline
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Is planned obsolescence "progress" when we can't find enough landfills for our junk?

Disposing with the fix-it guys
San Francisco Chronicle, July 10. 2005

"Remember the old ad about the lonely washing machine technician? Well, he's no longer lonely -- he's dying away.

In this disposable age, the neighborhood appliance technician is disappearing.
----------
Not only have consumers grown accustomed to throwaway culture, but appliance companies count on it.

"In 1920,'' Hanika says, "a (top of the line) iron cost $9.95. That was expensive for then, but it was built to last 20 years. Today, you can also buy an iron for $9.95. The difference is, today it is junk.''


And so it is with progress.

http://snipurl.com/gaov

Is planned obsolescence socially responsible?
Sharon Beder

In an editorial in Design News toward the end of the fifties, E. S. Safford asked whether engineers should resist the philosophy of planned obsolescence if their management commissioned a 'short-term product' and argued that they should not: "Planned existence spans of product may well become one of the greatest economic boosts to the American economy since the origination of time payments." What was required, he argued was "a new look at old engineering ethics". Instead of trying to build the best, the lightest, the fastest and the cheapest, engineers should be able to apply their skills to building shoddy articles that would fall apart after a short amount of time, all in the interests of the market.

The editorial prompted a wide response. Several engineers wrote in to add their agreement. According to Packard, "the majority of engineers and executives reacting to the editorial, however, seemed angry and bewildered. They appeared to have little enthusiasm for the 'new ethics' they were being invited to explore." They objected because planned obsolescence gave engineering a bad name, because it cheated customers who were not informed of the death-date of the product, and because it directed creative engineering energies toward short-term market ends rather than more lofty and ambitious engineering goals.

Today when protecting the environment is such a priority goal, the question of product life and durability is again a critical question.

http://snipurl.com/gap9





#145083 - 07/16/05 03:46 PM Re: Is it "progress"?  
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musick Offline
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Is planned obsolescence "progress" when we can't find enough landfills for our junk?

No. It has nothing to do with "growth", either.

There is only one way to get out of this vicious cycle: planned recycling.


#145084 - 07/16/05 04:05 PM Re: Is it "progress"?  
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plutarch Offline
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vicious cycle

Consider the battery issue. What happens to all those spent batteries for videocams and the like, including the cheap ones imported from China with higher toxic chemical content?

While reading instructions on ‘battery care and use’ in my mobile phone handbook. I came across this ‘strange’ advice also, apart from many other useful instructions.“The battery should never be placed in the municipal waste. Use the battery disposal facility. Please check local regulations for disposal of batteries.”
Frankly being an electronics engineer, I knew quite a lot about the kind of chemicals like nickel cadmium, lead, mercury used in batteries but had never given a thought to the disposal of used dry as well as wet batteries and the toxic fumes and acidic residues that would ooze out of them where they are decaying.
We use zillions of pencil-cell batteries in all sorts of electronic gadgets, remote controls, calculators, toys, and what not. Imagine the health hazards for garbage collectors and others handling such waste with their bare hands and without masks.
A German wife of my friend told me that in Germany it is an offence to throw a battery in a place other than the battery disposal facility made available by the municipality at appropriate places, from where used batteries are collected, centrally salvaged and their metal and materials, if possible, recycled.
Have our environmentalists, government or the NGOs ever thought of it?


http://snipurl.com/garv


#145085 - 07/17/05 12:41 AM Re: Is it "progress"?  
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Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
planned recycling

Planned recycling of personalities?


#145086 - 07/17/05 12:50 AM Re: Is it "progress"?  
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plutarch Offline
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Planned recycling of personalities?

Let's just say Carpathian will give as much Carp as he gets, W'ON. That's not recycling, planned or otherwise. It's just a fair exchange preceded by a respectful caution.

Perhaps you were not around to read the caution, W'ON.

Anyone gets one free taunt at Plutarch. Some others have already used theirs up.










#145087 - 07/17/05 02:20 AM Re: Is it "progress"?  
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of troy Offline
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rego park
and how many free taunts does plutarch get? one per customer too? or does he have free reign to harass?

just checking--i want to make sure i understand the rules...(since you've decided to make some up.) and your threat--oops thats a loaded word--your conditions for posting here seem to be, we play by your rules, or you run rough shod over the board. Oh, wait, you've done that before.

i am waiting..(and waiting) for all those who are alegdged 'oppressed' by the 'carps' to appear and start posting.

since you are only posting as under one name, (i do have that right, you have stated you are going to confine yourself to one name?) and besides, i don't think anyone would disagree --one person posting under various names is not an 'active' board, but a rather a monopolized one.

so call in all your friends and supporters.. get them to post. I am waiting.


#145088 - 07/17/05 03:33 AM Re: Is it "progress"?  
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plutarch Offline
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Dear Of Troy:

If you want to see me continue to post peaceably under one name, Plutarch, the name I used when I originally arrived here as a peaceable "Stranger" [before I was insulted without provocation and swarmed by Carp, including yourself], then don't try to pick a fight with me now.

If this Board erupts in the discord you and ASp tried to engineer for over 3 months when I was turn-the-other-cheek Plutarch, I want everyone, in particular, all the newcomers you have deceived, to know exactly who started it.

I want everyone to be crystal clear about that. So I'm going to be very patient with you, Of Troy ... for now.

But if you take that restraint for a weakness, then you are mistaken.


#145089 - 07/17/05 02:45 PM Re: Is it "progress"?  
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of troy Offline
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rego park
oh, so i was right, you ARE making threats.

Ok, so there one thing cleared up.

now how many pot shots do you get to take at the 'carps'? (vs objecting to a specific person's posting?)

you stated each carp is only going to be allowed one chance to say something in responce to your, or in responce to something you have posted..--oops, one responce that you deam to be 'unacceptable'..

so should we send you PM's first? and do we have to get your approval for everything we want to post? and if you find it to be unacceptable do we have to edit till it meets your approval?

Do we get the same rights with things you want to post? can we pre edit?

Whit man posted a jingle.. from a long ago TV show. that most people under 30 might not even know (unless they are crossword puzzle addicts, since Mr.Ed is a common answer --at least in the daily NYTimes puzzles.)

some months ago, you posted in this topic,( Q & A about words) and in other topics, in a limerick format.

so should Whitman have formed his answer as a limerick? would that have passed muster? why was his post considered a pot shot? (there was the mention of horses, and yes, it wasn't exactly a word related post, but your post was not obviously a word related post either--even you noted someone questioned it)

you have to understand.. i don't play hogwash because i don't really get the rules, and right now, i don't understand what you are proposing as rules.

it seems to be, NOTHING that is not in total agreement or support of your posts. OR ELSE you start behaving obnoxiously.

well it seems to me, you are behaving obnoxiously when you restrict our free speech. It seem you are behaving obnoxiously when you make post, and then respond to your own post not once, not twice but several times, in rapid succession. It comes across, (intended or not) as trying to drowned out all other voices.. and it does.

people (not just the imaginary group you've chosen to label as Carps) stop posting.

you've stated only one pot shot. you have taken more than one pot shot at the "carps". so i guess the rules, what ever you intend them to be, DON'T APPLY TO YOU. is that right?

who are the carps? i want names.

then, when they are named, everyone can get to evaluate for themselves if this 'cartel' you imagine to exist does, and they can evaluate the carps behavior, and yours, and see who is the most distruptive, and taking the most gratutitve post shots and at who.

You perceive enemies. Name them.
Here i'll help you start the list

Of Troy.


#145090 - 07/17/05 02:51 PM warmongering  
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plutarch Offline
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Whit man posted a jingle.. from a long ago TV show. that most people under 30 might not even know (unless they are crossword puzzle addicts, since Mr.Ed is a common answer --at least in the daily NYTimes puzzles.)

W'ON's Mr. Ed post was clever, Of Troy. And inoffensive. And I acknowledged it as such.

Your warmongering is not.


#145091 - 07/17/05 02:59 PM Re: warmongering  
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of troy Offline
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rego park
no sir, your responce was not nice, and its been edited

because your realized, anyone reading your nasty responce to Whitman in the enumclaw thread would see, clearly, that you are parinoid, and take every comment that is not complimtary as an insult.

and you haven't answered my legitimate questions.

please do so.


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