|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4
stranger
|
OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4 |
> I am reading "Ancient Egypt, Light of the World" by Gerald Massey. Amongst
> other things, he explores the roots of words tracing back through the
> hieroglyphs. When I look in our dictionaries, however, I find few if any
> references to the root words as Egyptian. For the most part we get Latin,
> Greek, French, German, English, American Indian, etc. I'd guess that this
> is a cultural bias of Western Civilization. I'm wondering if there is an
> Egyptian dictionary and what it would have to say about the derivation of
> words.
>
>
>
> To give you an idea of Massey's extensive work I will include the following
> excerpt concerning the word Totem which is to be found in its entirety in
> this link:
> [1]Book 2- Totemism, Tattoo and fetishism as forms of sign-language - Part
> of Ancient Egypt - The Light of the World by Gerald M.
>
> Totemism originated in Sign-language rather than in Sociology, the Signs
> being afterwards applied for use in Sociology as they were in Mythology and
> Fetishism. The name "Totem" is supposed to have originated in the language
> of the North American Indians. The word Totem exists in the Ojibway language
> for a sign, a symbol, mark, or device of the group, Gens, or Tribe. The Rev.
> Peter Jones, an Ojibway, spells the word "Toodaim". Francis Assikinack, an
> Ottawa Indian, renders it by Ododam. The Abb¨¦ Thavenet, quoting from the
> Algonkin language, gives nind Otem for "my tribe", and kit Otem for "thy
> tribe". The root of the word as here rendered is Tem or Dem. The name and
> things thus denoted are found to be universal for a group, a gathering, a
> collection, a total of persons, animals, huts or houses. The Magar Thum is
> the Phratry or Clan, of which there were twelve altogether. The Attic
> township was called a Dem. The Sanskrit Dama is the home; Greek Domos, Latin
> Domus, Sclavonic Domu, English Dome. Itembe = the dome is the roof in
> Niamwezi. In Zulu the Tumu is an assemblage. In Maori, the Tamene is a
> collection of people. Also the Toma is a cemetery like the Scottish Tom, and
> the Tumuli where the dead were gathered together. Tomo, in archaic Japanese,
> denotes a gathering of persons who are companions. In Assyrian, likewise,
> the Timi are the companions. As is usual in the present work, we turn to
> Egypt to see what the great Mother of Civilisation has to say concerning the
> Tem and the Totem.
> ¦³¦Ø¦Ì (Tom) in Coptic signified joining together as in the Tem. The word
> "Tern" has various applications in Egyptian. It signifies Man, Mankind,
> Mortals, also to unite, be entire or perfect. Moreover it is a name for
> those who are created persons, as in making young men and young women in the
> Totemic ceremonies, of which more hereafter. If ever the word "created"
> could be properly applied to the Making of Men and to those who were grouped
> together, it is in Totemism. In Egyptian, Tem, or Tem-t, is not only a Total
> and to be totalled.The sign of Tem-t in the Hieroglyphics is the figure of a
> total composed of two halves; [EgyptOne53.gif] thus the Tern is one with the
> Total, and the Total comprised two halves at the very point of bifurcation
> and dividing of the whole into two; also of totalling a number into a whole
> which commences with twofold unity. And when the youths of the Aborigines on
> the River Darling are made men of in the ceremonies of puberty - that is,
> when they are created Men - they are called Tumba. (F. Bonney.) It would
> seem as if the word ,¡±Tem¡± for the total in two halves had been carried by
> name as well as by nature to the other side of the world, for two classes in
> St. George's Sound are universally called Erinung and Tern. The whole body
> of natives are divided into these two moieties. The distinctions, says Nind,
> are general, not tribal. They agree, however, with the Arunta division into
> two classes of the Churinga at the head of the Totems which represent the
> sub-divisional distinctions. (Scott Nind, Journal of Royal Geographical
> Society, Vol. I., 1832.) The Egyptian Tem is also a place-name as well as a
> personal name for the social unit, or division of persons. The Temai was a
> District, a Village, a Fortress, [Page 54] a Town or a City, on the way to
> becoming the Dom, as we have it in the heirdom and the kingdom, for the
> whole or total that is governed by a King. But the group-name for people
> preceded the group-name for a collection of dwellings, whether for the
> living or the dead. Here the "Tern" is a total, as we have it in English for
> a "team" of horses, a brood of ducks, a litter of pigs. Egypt itself had
> passed out of the Totemic stage of Sociology in monumental times, but the
> evidences for its prehistoric existence are visibly extant in the
> place-names and in the mirror of Mythology which reflects aloft a
> pre-monumental past of illimitable length. In Egypt the Zootypes of the
> Motherhoods and Companionships had become the Totems of the Nomes
>
> I'd appreciate your comments.
>
> Joe Lamando
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.theosophical.ca/Book2AncientEgypt.htm
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
Hi Joe
Ummm. I got lost in the middle somewhere. Is the author saying that all of these words from Maori, Sanscrit, Japanese and Ojibway are linguistic descendants of one Egyptian root? It seems like a pretty broad claim to me but then like I said it's too deep for me and I foundered and sank somewhere in the middle of the passage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
i too, don't read as well from a screen as i do from paper (i see the 60hz flickers..yeah, i know humans aren't supposed to be able too.. but..)
the only 'word' i know from ancient eygpt is the name
susanna.. (the hebrew is Shoshana and is very close to the what they think the ancient egyptian sounded like (based on other names transliterations.. (ie, cleopatra, tut, etc..) based on there Rosetta stone knowledge base.
i don't know enough about the language group that modern or ancient egyptian to know if it is a semite language (like modern hebrew or arabic) or some other group..
but anything you have to offer will be interesting!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Welcome aBoard, joe.
The Sanskrit Dama is the home; Greek Domos, Latin
> Domus, Sclavonic Domu, English Dome.
! Domicile! Gotta be the same root.
Hey, eta, didja see your word? Bifurcation is in there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
> bifurcation heh. thanks, jackie. 
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
The only word which comes to us from Ancient Egypt (apart from words to do with Egyptology) is alchemy. (Al Arabic article + chemy < Kmt Egyptian word for Egypt).
However, your reference is from the works of Gerald Massey, a 19th century theosophist. At the time he was writing it was anthropological orthodoxy that all civilisation derived from Egypt. Most, if not all, anthropologists do not subscribe to that theory now.
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
I have no idea on the scholastic credentials underlying this Bing, but some places suggest other words too - for example: http://www.krysstal.com/borrow_egyptian.htmlWhat d'ja think?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Trying to do umpteen different things at once, I did miss out the essential words "off the top of my head". A search of the etymologies in the online AHD for Egyptian gives the following: http://www.bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/ahdsearch?search_type=etym&query=Egyptian&db=ahd&Submit=SearchCan anyone do something similar with an electronic OED? I cross-checked mummy, which the Krysstal site lists as being of Egyptian origin. The AHD traces it back to the Persian for wax. Looking at the page for words originating from Malay, I can see some mistakes. Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4
stranger
|
|
OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4 |
One of the words that Massey deals extensively with is KRST which he writes Karast. This is the word referring to the mummy. He equates this to Kristos= Christ. The Egyptians in their rites (Book of the Dead) held that the highest mortal attainment, 7th level of soul, was indicated in the mumification. This would be Christhood. Needless to say this was not a popular notion, it being several millenia before Jesus, however he gives convincing evidence of this. Horus was the equivalent of Jesus according to Massey.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
One of the words that Massey deals extensively with is KRST which he writes Karast. This is the word referring to the mummy.
How interesting that, in the 1932 Universal picture "The Mummy," the eponymous character, played by Boris Karloff, was named "Karis".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Well, Christos is a Greek word which ultimately comes from the Indo-European word ghrei, meaning rub. http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE172.htmlAccording to this review ( http://hnn.us/articles/6641.html) of a book putting forward similar ideas to Massey's: KRST is the word for “burial” (“coffin” is written “KRSW”), but there is no evidence whatsoever to link this with the Greek title “Christos” or Hebrew “Mashiah”. Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661 |
...played by Boris Karloff, was named "Karis".
By any chance, was the character's last name 'Borloff'?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Karis Borloff 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>Can anyone do something similar with an electronic OED?
a search for 'Egyptian' in etymologies yields 88 results, but of course few of these are "words from"; a quick scan gives: ankh, behemoth(?), card (as in playing-cards)(?), loofah, ouija(??), pyramid(?)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
ouija!? I thought that was just supposed to the French and German words for 'yes', or is that another folk etymology?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4
stranger
|
|
OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4 |
Coincidentally, I created my own Ouija board. Being a Mechanical Engineer and interested in ergonomics as well as psychic phenomena I decided that it would be more efficient to group the vowels in a central location. After much juggling and finally a psychic phenomenon of my own I was successful and quite astonished at the results! The alphabet is bilatterally symmetrical about its vowels! Also, coincidentally, my interest in Gerald Massey's works followed my reading of Alvin Boyd Kuhn's work, The Esoteric Meaning of the Alphabet." Kuhn was a protege of Massey. If you're interested in seeing Scrybe email me at joelamando@aol.com and I'll attach a copy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
ouija rated a (??) based on this:
[Origin uncertain.
The word has been variously explained as (a) < French oui OUI adv. + German ja yes (see YEA adv.), (b) < an ancient Egyptian word for ‘good luck’ (although app. no such word exists), and (c) < the name of Oujda, the name of a city in Morocco.]
this is from the revised draft edition of OED © 2004;
the 2nd edition has only this: [f. F. oui yes + G. ja yes.]
so they've backed off from the oui/ja explanation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4
stranger
|
|
OP
stranger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4 |
I attended a conference on the history of the Ouija board several years ago in Salem, Mass and met william Fuld's grandaughter there. Fuld was the creator of Parer Brothers Ouija board. Ouija was the French and German combination of words as I recall according to Feld. There were a lot of talking boards after before and after that but it was Feld's definition of Ouija. Actually, before Feld, the original inventor Charles Kennard called the new board Ouija (pronounced wE-ja) after the Egyptian word for good luck. Ouija is not Egyptian for good luck, but since the board reportedly told him it was during a session, the name stuck. Or so the story goes. It is more likely that the name came from the fabled Moroccan city Oujda (also spelled Oujida and Oudjda). This makes sense given the period's fondness for Middle Eastern cites and the psychic miracles of the Fakirs.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,315
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
263
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
