|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
|
OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
The use of the word ‘tie’ to indicate a draw in a sporting competition is well known, but whence comes the use of ‘cup tie’, meaning a competition with a cup as the reward for the winner? Any thoughts?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Whence comes it? Whither gang it? Was I sleeping when it went by?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
What does it mean "Cup tie"? It's not a race for a tie That you wear, or even A score even-steven. Aha! "bringing together" means "tie". When people come together from all over for a "Cup tie", they are like strands which will be tied together in competition for days. "Meet" is another word for "tie". When the meet is over, the tie is over. Competitors become 'untied' and they go their separate ways. Note: "Tie" is a Britishism which we hear in North America in connection with the sport of tennis, primarily [ I think, perhaps golf, as well]. Tennis originated in England so the Brits 'own' the vocabulary of the sport *, just as Americans, who invented the computer and the Internet, own the vocabulary of the computer and the Internet. [This last assertion could stir up a lively debate. :) ] In North America, we call a sporting event a "meet", not a tie. As you are from the U.K., dxb, you may not be aware of that. Now, where does even-steven come from? From the Mavens' Word of the Day: Question: The other day, while doling out treats to my "kids" (my two Border Terriers) I uttered even-steven and then wondered where this phrase came from. Any ideas?Answer This is a rhyming compound meaning 'having settled accounts', as in "Give me $10 and we'll be even-steven." It also means 'having an equal score; tied', as in "The teams were even-steven." So it's just an emphatic form of "even." Also spelled even-Steven or even-Stephen, its connection with the male name "Steven/Stephen" is obvious. If this were the whole story, it would be considered an American English slang term from the 1860s. (Though it's now informal rather than slang.)
But other connections have been suggested.http://snipurl.com/dfny* The Russians appear to 'own' the vocabulary of pedology [an AWAD not long ago] because they did all the pioneering research in the field [of soil science]. The French appear to own the vocabulary of wine because they were the first to make the industry an art, which sounds like a contradiction in terms, but that's the whole point, isn't it? Unfortunately for the French, French wine is losing its snob appeal, and, therefore, its market share world-wide. But we'll keep the French vocabulary anyway. We don't call the "Davis Cup Tie" the "Davis Cup Meet" just because the Brits lose to the Yanks. [Oops! I could be stirring up another debate. :) ]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
tennis started in the monestaries of france, not england.
and many tennis terms are from french words, the thought is the term 'love' for zero is from the french term for an egg.. (the french term is l'ouf, as i recall)
even the name of the game, tennis, comes from a french term.
i have never heard the term tie used with tennis in the US.--(and living with in walking distance of NY Arther Ashe stadium, home to the US Tennis Open, i do actually hear a lot of tennis terms.)
is tie a direct translation of the french term for a tournament, of tennis?
as for meet- that term is used in a limited context-- track and field, gymnastics, and wrestling, and sometimes tennis.
it is sports term, but i would hardly say .."we call a sporting event a "meet",.. ", unless i was talking about those specific sports.
in NY, i think tournament is used more often than meet for tennis. while individuals might play a game; they are more likely to play a set of games ( a set) , for prizes, it an OPEN or tournament.
and i suppose, like a 1000 monkeys, typing on a 1000 typewriters for 1000 years, you too, might one day make a interesting, well scanned limerick.
until then, could you keep them to a thead for limericks?
there have been several. and while one or two have escaped from word play and fun, in general...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
Thanks for straightening me out, Of Troy. I am sorry if I seemed to be holding myself out as an expert. I was trying to get a little discussion [even "lively debate"] going, and, thanks to you, that is happening. re "have never heard the term tie used with tennis in the US." Austria bullish ahead of Davis Cup tieABC Sports Austria has been practising at the Sydney International Tennis Centre ahead of the Davis Cup tie against Australia, which starts on Friday.http://snipurl.com/dfqyIf the Brits didn't invent tennis, Of Troy, they certainly brought it out of its cloister. As I understand it, the Wimbledon is the longest running continuous annual tennis tournament in the world. BTW I see that you have given a nod to the new standards of civility around here by whiting out your harshest criticisms. I suppose that is an improvement over past vituperations, but others might prefer you to send messages of this kind to me by PM. As for my limerick, I ask you to judge it, Of Troy, for its content, not on the basis of its form or rhyme. I received some kind comments from others about the limericks I posted yesterday in Q & A. Some others do not see mixing a little fun along with edification as a despoliation of Q & A. Of course, you may not think my limericks are edifying, but, then, I did not choose the words I have been discussing in limerick form. Other people posted those words, including the term "Cup tie". BTW I understand that there is a petition circulating about naming a moderator for AWADtalk. Have you put yourself forward for that job, Of Troy. Or perhaps you have already been acclaimed without volunteering. Or perhaps you are, like themilum, "self-annointed". At least themilum gives my limericks "Place Two" in a field of one. :) Let's just have fun and learn some stuff from one another. OK, Of Troy. Your post above filled in a lot of cracks and I am most grateful for that. Thank you. Sincerely.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
dixbie, re: your question, I have never heard the term cup tie.
Re: limericks--unless I am mistaken, they were designed as a means to have fun. I hope this doesn't sound too harsh--I have been in a bad mood since yesterday morning--but I would like to ask that limericks be confined to Wordplay and FUN, please.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
Dear Jackie:
I always respect your opinion, but I don't always agree with it.
Why censure limericks as a form of expression if they contain content which is relevant and even informative? We don't punish people for misspellings or awkward sentence construction in Q & A. Why would we ban limericks which do not contain offensive language?
Jackie, I think your suggestion of confining limericks to "Wordplay", not just mine but anyone's inoffensive verse, is arbitrary and unfair and even an infringement on free speech. [To be perfectly frank with you, Jackie, I think the proposed ban on harmless limericks, especially limericks intended to convey information which is responsive to a question or the subject of discussion, would be worse than an unwarranted intrusion on free speech. It would a ludicrous intrusion on free speech. I'm tempted to say "comical", but it isn't really funny.]
Where will this sort of censorship end, Jackie?
Should we also ban free verse from "Q & A"? Or even TEd Rem's delightful little stories which are as edifying as a butterskotch sundae with a cherry on top, but just as much fun as a butterskotch sundae. [I happen to like butterskotch sundaes, but maybe you like chocolate sundaes, but that's the point, isn't it? We don't all enjoy the same thing but we all enjoy humor, wherever we can find it. Hey, this isn't a lecture hall, or a Sunday School, Jackie. This is AWADtalk. :) ]
Of course, if you have been installed as the new official moderator with powers to censure people like me whose informative little rhymes offend your personal sensibilities or Of Troy's, then, of course, I must accept your decision. Reason and fairness are then reduced to irrelevance to satisfy the whims of a few at the cost of free speech.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Why would we punish limericks?because yours suck, as the kids say, and add nothing; in fact, they subtract a lot... not to mention your loooong posts that effectively kill many otherwise-interesting threads 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Because by definition, limericks are a light or humorous verse (Merriam-Webster). Not that humor should never be seen in this category, but one limerick after another after another quite frankly seems like something other than trying to edify the thread(s).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,316
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
621
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
