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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,526
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,526 |
Intent determines altruism in humans. If the sole purpose that a person did a particular thing was so he could say "See, I did *this*," then the thing is not altruistic. If the person did it for selfless reasons and then bragged about it as an afterthought, the deed is no less altruistic, imo.
I - and perhaps others - write as if altruism and selfishness were binary choices. But there are gradations between these extremes and a single bit is insufficient to convey the myriad possibilities.
I qualify the above with the phrase "in humans," because it's not clear to me that bees, for example, have intent, though their behavior is commonly recognized as altruistic.
k
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
could you please define horsepucky for me?. You can be frank about it, I am no sociobiologist, and I also have some sneaky suspicions about them. I gather the "selfish gene" is already outdated.Sure, Werner. It's a polite way of saying bullshit! I was being controversial. My dislike of sociobiology stems from an abhorrence of "science" that in many cases proves its theories by begging the question and other forms of dodgy logic. My dislike of sociobiology is also known to many on the board! I've always felt that the major attraction of sociobiology to otherwise quite smart people like Dawkins is because adopting allows you to avoid rigour ... 
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
>>>My dislike of sociobiology is also known to many on the board!Really Cap? How could we possibly know that, what with you being all timid-like, and introverted, and reticent to voice yer opinion an all.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Yes, he always has been a shrinking violet...
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
"Regard for others as a principle of action; unselfishness" is the way OED defines it.
Wonder how long they discussed before coming up with that definition?
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 34
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 34 |
the "selfish gene" is already outdated
The "selfish gene" isn't outdated, wsieber. It's just got a new spin doctor.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 34
newbie
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newbie
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 34 |
Trumpeting a good deed ... That's clearly opportunism
Right on, maahey.
If I want to do good
And I try to do good
That's "altruism".
If I happen to do good
And I make it look good
That's "opportunism".
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
When a mother bird feeds the cookoo's young, is that
altruism? I think it could be argued both ways.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I don't think so Bill, from the several articles I've read about it, the mother bird thinks that the cuckoo is actually one of her babies hatching from one of her own eggs. So she's not doing this out of niceness to the mother cuckoo.
I'm thinking that when the mother bird plays decoy to distract a predetor from her nest - that sounds more like altruism.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 771
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 771 |
Actually, I've read a theory that it's the most selfish act of 'em all ~ the mother bird is attempting to distract the predator from her young so that her own genetic legacy will survive. The book to which I refer put it in a larger context, of course...
Dark Nature: A Natural History of Evil by Lyall Watson, in case anyone's interested. It was a good read.
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