Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#126169 03/26/04 08:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
wsieber Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
In an otherwise serious trade journal, I just read the phrase:
"These machines represent the first truly new innovations.."
What's next?


#126170 03/26/04 12:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
More, please. Is that the entire sentence, or does it go on with something, maybe along the lines of ..."in advancing this particular technique"?


#126171 03/26/04 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Instead of "innovations", "truly new improvements"


#126172 03/26/04 02:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Yeah. I was all set to rant against the rant along the lines of Jackie's question when it occurred to me that the complaint was probably about the 'new innovations'.


And *that got me wondering, do they stop being innovations when they are no longer new? Henry Ford's adaptation of the assembly line to automobile production was truly an innovation, but the assembly line in autmobile production today is not. Does that mean that Henry Ford's feat is no longer an innovation?

#126173 03/26/04 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
Are you sure? I thought it was the geminate period or the dropped third period of the ellipsis. When does an innovation become old hat? How do we distinguish Victorian innovations from Georgian ones?


Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Nope, they are still innovative in the milieu in which they were introduced. The assmebly line was new for its time and was thus an invention. Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin (or at least gets credit for it.) Neither is new now, but everything was new once. Even I! But that was a LONG time ago.

I guess you could say that innovation is time-sensitive.



TEd
#126175 03/26/04 04:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 619
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 619
Does that mean that Henry Ford's feat is no longer an innovation?

No. It just means it's no longer a new innovation.

The word "innovation" includes the word "nov" for new, as you know.

Therefore, you can have old innovations or innovations which are no longer new, but you can't have "new" innovations ... unless the other innovations aren't really innovations at all, in which case you can have a "truly new innovation".

Hope this helps, Faldage.



Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
The assmebly line was new for its time and was thus an invention.

Although this may *somehow be true when it comes to automobile assembly, I find this particular claim a wee bit (if not overbearingly) unbelievable. Mass production, no matter what "Ford" history may claim, wasn't invented. That's like someone inventing laziness. The "bucket brigade" method of fighting fires is certainly describing the exact method, however simple the task may be in comparison... but, then again, that's the whole point, isn't it?


Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
I
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
I
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
>>bucket brigade<<

The difference being that apart from the first and last positions on the line (respectively, gathering and throwing water), the tasks are undifferentiated nor is it production, unless of a service.

However, the assembly line presupposes standardization or parts which, I have it on poor authority, was an innovation of Elie Whitney's. Or at least of gun manufacturers. According to an article that appeared in the Economist several years ago, this had repurcussions in the American Civil War, when guns were first mass produced. Further, it has ramifications for the interpretataion of the original intention of the right to bear arms.


Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 619
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 619
Mass production, no matter what "Ford" history may claim, wasn't invented.

You're certainly right about that, Musick, but Henry Ford put his assembly line on the road to mass production.

That probably wasn't an invention. But it was one heck of an innovation, wouldn't you agree.


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 442 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5