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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 1 of 2 1 2 Think, thank, thunk #122801 02/13/04 01:50 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage OP Carpal Tunnel OP Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 What do we know about the origin of the ablaut series as a tense marker in Germanic (or any other) languages? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Think, thank, thunk #122802 02/13/04 01:56 PM Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont a look at OneLook took me to the Wikipedia, which had this: Ablaut From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. In linguistics, the process of ablaut (from German ab-: off + laut: sound) is a vowel change accompanying a change in grammatic function. For example, the vowel change in English from i to a to u in sing (present tense), sang (preterite), sung (past-participle) is referred to as an ablaut. Verbs that display ablaut in English, and that do not form their preterites with a dental suffix like -ed or added -t or d, are called strong verbs. There used to be several regular classes of strong verbs in English, and many more of them; virtually all monosyllable verbs were strong verbs in Old English. Now, there are fewer of them; the force of analogy has remade many of them in the image of weak verbs, those verbs that form the preterite with a dental suffix. Sound changes like the Great Vowel Shift have also obscured some of the underlying regularity of the former classes of strong verbs. Now most of them are considered irregular verbs. Ablaut is a common characteristic of many Indo-European languages and is also known as gradation. Latin displays ablaut in verbs such as ago (present tense), "I drive"; egi, (perfect tense), "I drove." Ablaut is a semi-regular phenomenon that affects whole classes of verbs in Ancient Greek and Sanskrit. Indo-European had a characteristic general ablaut sequence that contrasted the vowel phonemes o/e/ə/Ø through the same root. Most philologists believe that the presence of laryngeals in the Indo-European roots, and their subsequent loss in most daughter languages, led to the development of several parallel ablaut sequences in Indo-European and its daughter languages.(e.a.) When ablaut is a regular feature of a language's grammar, it is often called vowel gradation. The ablaut is distinguished from the phonetic influence of a succeeding vowel, called umlaut. See also: reduplication; augment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ablaut formerly known as etaoin... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Think, thank, thunk #122803 02/13/04 01:58 PM Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont here's Wikipedia on laryngeals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laryngeal_theory neat stuff. wish I had more time today to look it over... formerly known as etaoin... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: look, like, luck #122804 02/13/04 02:04 PM Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont another interesting site, at least to me. http://www.tundria.com/Linguistics/IEPhonol.htm formerly known as etaoin... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Think, thank, thunk #122805 02/13/04 02:26 PM Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,475 California J jheem veteran jheem veteran J Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,475 California It seems that the sound change came first and then the grammatical reanalysis. This is a process called grammaticalization and is much studied. Laryngeals are interestesting because they were posited by Saussure for the proto-language even though none of the daugther languages displayed them. Then along came Hittite, and it had an example of one laryngeal surviving. Though, Hittite may have been a sister language of PIE. Your mileage may vary. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Think, thank, thunk #122806 02/13/04 02:32 PM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage OP Carpal Tunnel OP Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Thanks, cygne. I never think to look at wikipedia. Thanks, Nuncle. You're saying that it's lost in the mists of time? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Think, thank, thunk #122807 02/13/04 02:53 PM Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,475 California J jheem veteran jheem veteran J Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,475 California S'pose so. I've heard ablaut ascribed to a change in stress / tone in PIE words which why you have a bunch of e ~ o ~ null phonemes in some linguists' reconstructions of PIE phonology. OTOH, umlaut (a sibling process) is common enough in languages the world over, and (who knows) may be related to vowel harmony ... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: sing, sang, sunk #122808 02/13/04 03:03 PM Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont vowel harmony ooh, tell us more! formerly known as etaoin... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: sing, sang, sunk #122809 02/14/04 01:06 AM Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,475 California J jheem veteran jheem veteran J Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,475 California Turkish and Finnish have it. The way it works in those languages is that there are X groups of vowels and endings have to match their vowel(s) with the vowels in the root / word they're attached to. Keeps things harmonious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_harmony Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: sing, sang, sunk #122810 02/15/04 01:01 AM Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 7,210 Vermont thanks, jheem, I never knew anything like that existed. cool. formerly known as etaoin... 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