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#121915 02/02/04 05:42 PM
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Canadian and British 'shän?? Canadian perhaps, but I'm surprised an American dictionary lists obscure regional dialects from Britain. shän in the West Country, where they talks loik poirates perhaps, and in southern Ireland. shon for the rest of us, like shot and shop and Ron and Don.


#121916 02/02/04 06:07 PM
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shon for the rest of us, like shot and shop and Ron and Don Oh, that sounds so wrong to me! It's like tsuwm said: if there's an e on the end, that makes the vowel LONG. I can't think of one single word we use that has the shon sound. Sean comes close, but that's really more of a shawn, usually.


#121917 02/02/04 06:12 PM
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like shot and shop and Ron and Don

Of course, this presupposes that you know how the speaker pronounces 'shot and shop and Ron and Don.'


#121918 02/02/04 06:48 PM
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this presupposes that you know how the speaker pronounces 'shot and shop and Ron and Don.'

Yes and no. We don't know from this description how Jenet pronounces the word "shone" at the phonetic level. But the US/British distinction here is phonemic.

But your main point is correct - sounds in general and these vowels in particular are notoriously difficult to discuss in a text-based medium, because of the amount of regional variation, and assumptions that turn out not to be universal. For many Americans, "stock" and "stalk" are homophones, hence punning titles like "Silk Stalkings" and "The Squawk Exchange", that are incomprehensible or laboured to the European ear. So you can't really convey a pronunciation by appealing to the pronunciation of another word, unless you are pretty sure of how every reader pronounces that other word.


#121919 02/02/04 07:57 PM
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I can't think of one single word we use that has the shon sound.

What about "gone," as dixbie used in his example?


#121920 02/02/04 08:10 PM
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>I can't think of one single word..

while one, none and done don't sound like shon (I'd guess), they are exceptions to the long vowel "rule".


#121921 02/02/04 08:32 PM
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I've usually heard shone and scone to rhyme with on. Scone with a long o denotes someone who has been to Britain recently and shone is a bit high-falutin for the colonies. (except when someone is shown the door) But then I gave up on expecting English to follow its own rules long ago.
It is very important, when buying a foreign phrase book to get one written in your own neighbourhood or all the little pronunciation tips turn into slips. eg the Berlitz book that made a distinction between the "oo" sound in school and the "u" sound in tube. In Canada (Western anyway) they are identical to that in roof. There is no Canadian equivilant that I can think of to the American vowel in roof.


#121922 02/02/04 08:40 PM
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I'm with Dixbie in both locations (down here in GB and up there in NZ).


#121923 02/02/04 09:21 PM
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Quite a while ago, I asked about the pronunciation of
"The Stone of Scone". I didn't get an answer. What say
you now?


#121924 02/02/04 10:05 PM
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I grew up saying shone as in "shown". People in Central Florida pronounce it both ways ("shown" or "shawn"), depending on where they are from.


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