Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#120849 01/23/04 01:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
I
Pooh-Bah
OP Offline
Pooh-Bah
I
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
I'm looking for a word that would to non-military (not non-law enforcement). It is to be spoken by a Chandleresque private eye to a police detective. The PI is speaking of civilians in contrast to a bunch Marines who were killed earlier in the yarn.

***

Jackie: "schmuck" might or might not be offensive. It is most commonly used to mean 'jerk' or 'idiot' (which, I suppose, might also be offensive). Literally, it means 'penis,' and I think it must come from the German, 'Schmuck' (rhymes with 'hook') meaning 'jewelry,' so that it seems to be intended to be humorous in the demeaning humor of my tribe (Ashkenazi Jewery).

There is a joke about a guy who frequently visits New York and gets tired of long waits when he asks for his black Cadillac (dating the joke) from the garage. So, he decides to buy a camel. One day, he goes to the garage and asks for his camel and the attendant returns and tells him the camel has been stolen. When the police ask him whether the camel was male or female, the man replies that he's not sure, but he thinks it must be male. "Why do you think that?" say the police. "Because," says the man, "one day I was riding it down Fifth Avenue and somebody yelled, 'Hey, take a look at the schmuck on that camel."


#120850 01/23/04 01:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
I've heard it's from the Polish, smok (or something like that).


Here's what AHD4 has to say about it:

http://www.bartleby.com/61/84/S0138400.html

BTW, I'm sticking with John Doe, at least until something better comes along. I don't think our Sam Spade is necessarily gonna use a military term unless some point has been made of his having been in recently.

#120851 01/23/04 02:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
The OED quotes a first ref dating only from the 1890s and has less etymology than the AHD entry:

Schmuck


slang.



Also schmock (SmQk), shmock, shmuck. [Yiddish; originally a taboo-word meaning ‘penis’.]
A contemptible or objectionable person, an idiot. Hence "schmucky a., objectionable, obnoxious.

1892 I. Zangwill Childr. of Ghetto II. i. xvi. 45 Becky's private refusal to entertain the addresses of such a Shmuck.



#120852 01/23/04 02:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
It is most commonly used to mean 'jerk' or 'idiot' Well, that was my idea: I know that police talk among themselves as though they are superior to the general population, and I expect the military do too. That's why I chose derogatory terms. The only other possibility I can think of for your scenario is "the locals".




#120853 01/23/04 03:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
W
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
This is an oblique move (never happened here before HA!)
but may have some interest to a few :
http://www.campvishus.org/Camp2/USMCLingo.html#C
or you can MSN "Military Lingo" and get a page full of references.


#120854 01/23/04 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
There's at least three etymologies. The one you usually see is to connect it with German Schmuck 'ornament, decoration, jewels' (English smock is cognate with the German word); another one is in Kluge, from Slovenian smok 'fool'; and finally an origin in Slavic smok 'snake, dragon' (this is the one that the A-H gives). Of the two Yiddish dictionaries I have, neither Weinreich and Harvaky list the word. (This is weird since Harkavy isn't that squeamish and does list shmue 'cunt' and pots (pl. pets) 'penis; fool.) The vowel is problematic. I've always heard the word pronounced as /Sm@k/ and never /Smuk/, but then pots came into English as /p@ts/, too. shmuts 'dirt, filth' came in as /Smuts/, so I think that the Yiddish word should be shmok. I'm just not sure, but I lean toward the 'snake, dragon' rather than the 'jewels' etymology.


#120855 01/23/04 05:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Law enforcement officers hereabouts frequently refer to non-commissioned (in the police department), non-defendant persons as "citizens." This, oddly, is done without regard to the actual citizenship of the person to whom the term is applied. It carries the sense of not us (cops), not them (defendants/arrestees) but the others (citizens).



#120856 01/23/04 05:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Schmuck 'ornament, decoration, jewels' (English smock is cognate with the German word

in the case of the english smock, ornament is definately part of the sense of the word.

now days we think of a smock as something like a lab coat or house dress.. but smocks get there name from smocking (a kind of ornamental embroidery.)

trades of all kinds wore smocks. Yowmen would wear smocks.

a smock is made by taking squares and rectangle of cloth, gathering them, embroidering the gathers with a zigzag stitch (and perhaps ornamental embroidery as well) and joining the peices. the result is a short coat that fits close around the shoulders but has a full body, and -a very elastic yoke and upper sleeve, that would not rip under stress, but would stretch.

smocking is very elastic, and a coat make of smocking would fit comfortable close to the shoulders, and upper arms, (and at the cuffs of the sleeves) but the material would be elastic, allowing for a free range of movement. smocked pockets would have 'snug tops' which would help secure the contents.

workmen would wear smocks as badges of office almost. smocks were a compromise between the tailored clothing of the rich (which wasn't really suitable for work) and the shapeless (often knit) clothing of the very poor. (see the 'garb/habit' of franciscan monks)

some nuns habits had 'plain' smocking (black on black) in the day when nuns all wore traditional habits (Ursulines had smocking on there sleeves, and on the yoke of the dress)


#120857 01/23/04 06:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
J
veteran
Offline
veteran
J
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
Thanks, Of Troy. It seems to me that European tradesmen still wear smocks. Took a look-see at the German for smock: das Kittel 'gown, overall, pinafore', Arbeitskittel 'smock, overall', Malerkittel '(painter's) smock'. I also like the heavy corduroy work pants that some European laborers wear. (Not a smock, just a free asscociation.)


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
.... I just like the way it sounds.

[/hobbes]


Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 302 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5