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#119710 - 01/12/04 07:58 PM Re: Why 'Y'?  
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In Old English it was already tending to be pronounced /ye/. In fact there is a special cahracter, yogh, that looks almost like a cross between a z and a 3 that is used instead of a g.


#119711 - 01/12/04 08:01 PM Re: Why 'Y'?  
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Is there a Vox Inglisc, Nuncle?

I wish. There was a link for an Old English site that I linked off my blog. I'll take a look and get back to you.



#119712 - 01/12/04 08:26 PM Re: Why 'Y'?  
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Re:So, ywimpled would mean wearing a wimple or being a nun.

i think, in chaucer time, that wouldn't be entirely true... nuns 'habits' were fashioned from widows weeds, and reflect the proper garb for a woman in mourning.(at the time the order was created.. so old habits are almost a history of fashion!)

if the royal court were in mourning (as it was for many years during queen victoria's times) everyone in court would wear some sort of mourning garb--

widows weeds(at chaucers time) would have include wimples. so to 'be wimpled' could mean a nun, or just a woman in mourning attire, either for a husband, or someone else-(parent, etc.)

it was not uncommon for widows to live in convents, (even if they did not take the vows of a nun) they would have been entitled to a dowerage (1/3 the income from their late husbands estate), but not entitled to live in the household--(they could if the heir let them.. but lets face it, who want to live with your mother or stepmother?--especially if the law support the idea of you throwing her out of the house?)

so widows often lived with (and dressed as) nuns. but would still have some income, and if they had enough, they could travel.

if there was a death in the royal family (and Edward had half a dozen children who died) the whole of the court would go into mourning.. and the ornate wimples and headdresses would have been a common dress.

if a man died with no sons, his daughter(s) would inherit the estate, (as did Blanche of Lancaster) she would have been in mourning, but wealthy, and entitled to live on the family manor (as she did, after marrying john of gaunt.)
(one of the newer orders,(RC) the sisters of charity, was found at in ny , just after the civil war, and the 'habit' of the order is (was) the same sort of outfit you'd see on a widow of the time (they wear bonnets, with large visors, and ornate bows tied under their chins, not veils, and a pleated cape over a shirt waist dress, as a habit)


#119713 - 01/12/04 11:03 PM wimples  
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widows weeds(at chaucers time) would have include wimples. so to 'be wimpled' could mean a nun, or just a woman in mourning attire, either for a husband, or someone else-(parent, etc.)

Quite interesting. The Wife of Bath was of course a widow couple times over:

As for the Wife of Bath,
'Upon an amblere esily she sat,
Ywimpled wel, and on hir heed an hat
As brood as is a bokeler or a targe.'

Sorry for the misinformation. I tend to just think wimple == nun which has more to do with the meaning of wimple in the modern age than in the middle ages.



#119714 - 01/12/04 11:09 PM Re: 'Y' Not?  
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Shouldn't that be Mad Hatters
that would be good, too.
I was trying to remember the proper name for the business of making hats...



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#119715 - 01/13/04 06:28 AM Re: 'Y' Not?  
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millinery

Bingley


Bingley
#119716 - 01/13/04 08:02 AM Re: a site yclept englisc  
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> an Old English site

Here's one that I have on an old list, fwiw:

http://www.geocities.com/wordwulf/niw_englisc.htm


#119717 - 01/13/04 10:20 AM Re: yneedle  
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millinery
thanks, Bingley. that's what I was thinking, and then I thought, no, that's a dressmaker's shop... sew, silly me...




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#119718 - 01/13/04 01:50 PM Re: a site yclept englisc  
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Here's the link I was thinking of:

http://www.wmich.edu/medieval/research/rawl/IOE/index.html

The second chapter on pronunciation says that the yogh I was talking about, which the author calls a dotted g, is pronounced as voiced velar spirant. Sort of like the ch in the German ich but with the glottis buzzing.


#119719 - 01/13/04 01:55 PM Re: 'Y' Not?  
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Maybe I'm not the only one who didn't know etymology of
milliner:
milliner

SYLLABICATION: mil·li·ner
PRONUNCIATION: ml-nr
NOUN: One that makes, trims, designs, or sells hats.
ETYMOLOGY: Probably alteration of Middle English Milener, native of Milan, from Milan, the source of goods such as bonnets and lace.

I didn't think that there could be a mill to grind out hats.


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