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#119493 - 01/10/04 09:04 PM music and math  
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I wandered upon an interesting site:
http://www.kylegann.com/tuning.html, and found this line:
"Harmony" and "arithmetic" are derived from the same root.
I guess I didn't know this, and if I did, I have forgotten it. what do they cognate from? <evil cross-threading grin>

oh, and if this is a yart, my apologies. it hasn't been since I've been here. I think.



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#119494 - 01/10/04 09:10 PM Re: music and math  
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Dear etaoin: Badword anyone who says YART. It is rude and
unreasonable to expect new members to search before they
post. And if etaoin doesn't remember it, few others will
I don't see any likelihood of a close etymologic relation between harmonic and arithmetic, but I'll go search.

arithmetic

SYLLABICATION: a·rith·me·tic
PRONUNCIATION: -rthm-tk
NOUN: 1. The mathematics of integers, rational numbers, real numbers, or complex numbers under addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. 2. Archaic A book on this kind of mathematics.
ADJECTIVE: ar·ith·met·ic (rth-mtk) also arith·meti·cal (rth-mt-kl) 1. Of or relating to arithmetic. 2. Changing according to an arithmetic progression: The increase in the food supply is arithmetic.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English arsmetike, from Old French arismetique, from Medieval Latin arismetica, alteration of Latin arithmtica, from Greek arithmtik (tekhn), (art) of counting, feminine of arithmtikos, from arithmein, to count, from arithmos, number. See ar- in Appendix I.
OTHER FORMS: arith·meti·cal·ly —ADVERB
a·rithme·tician (-tshn) —NOUN

harmonic

SYLLABICATION: har·mon·ic
PRONUNCIATION: här-mnk
ADJECTIVE: 1a. Of or relating to harmony. b. Pleasing to the ear: harmonic orchestral effects. c. Characterized by harmony: a harmonic liturgical chant. 2. Of or relating to harmonics. 3. Integrated in nature.
NOUN: 1a. Any of a series of musical tones whose frequencies are integral multiples of the frequency of a fundamental tone. b. A tone produced on a stringed instrument by lightly touching an open or stopped vibrating string at a given fraction of its length so that both segments vibrate. Also called overtone, partial, partial tone. 2. harmonics (used with a sing. verb) The theory or study of the physical properties and characteristics of musical sound. 3. Physics A wave whose frequency is a whole-number multiple of that of another.
ETYMOLOGY: Latin harmonicus, from Greek harmonikos, from harmoni, harmony. See harmony.
OTHER FORMS: har·moni·cal·ly —ADVERB

I can remember vaguely something about Pythagorus seeing
arithmetic in musical scale. But the two word do not appear to be cognates.



#119495 - 01/10/04 09:21 PM Re: music and math  
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They go back to the same PIE root, ar-, per AHD4, along with army, hatred, rite, and rhyme, among others.


#119496 - 01/10/04 09:24 PM Re: music and math  
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Dear Faldage: those defintions I posted are from AHD.

Here's a URL about Pythagorus, and his interest in numbers
and music:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/math5.geometry/unit3/unit3.html#Music of the Spheres


#119497 - 01/10/04 09:28 PM Re: music and math  
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thanks, Bill, for the research, and Fald, that's quite a list! ar is quite a powerful little word...
Bill, Pythagoras worked out the ratios to natural tuning; overtones and such, and discovered the Pythgorean comma, that little extra space where the numbers don't add up, which I believe we just discussed a bit ago. this stuff goes so deep... I need more time.



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#119498 - 01/10/04 09:31 PM Re: music and math  
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thanks Bill, for that Pythagoras link. you popped that one in while I was composing my previous reply!



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#119499 - 01/10/04 09:37 PM Re: music and math  
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Dear etaoin: if you need time, think how much time this senile citizen needs.


#119500 - 01/11/04 01:16 AM Re: music and math  
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Bill wrote: "Badword anyone who says YART. It is rude and unreasonable to expect new members to search before they post."

And the Vicar responds: "Bless you, good sir, for this tolerant, sympathetic, kind and inviting way of looking at this issue."



#119501 - 01/11/04 03:02 PM Re: yarting  
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I, too, am with the view that the 'yart' card is rude. We are all such writers here that we could at last summarize points of view that we remembered from a previous discussion or just mention that the topic had been covered a while back and then recall an interesting fact or two frm that discussion. But to stop discussion altogether, especially if the topic hasn't been discussed in a while? Balderdash!

Now if the topic has been covered, say, last week, or is currently being discussed? Well, sure. Send the poster on to the active thread--or recently deceased dead thread.


#119502 - 01/11/04 06:26 PM Inappropriate assumptions  
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http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=78119

****************

Don't bother reading the below if your interested in harmony.

http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=108717

There's nothing like calling talking about yarting a yart... especially when doing so does, indeed, "stop the discussion altogether." IMNSHO, a yart is exactly "mentioning that the topic had been covered a while back...". As for the rest (see above links) I believe including a link is appropriate and all part of the responsibility (and benefits) of being part of a community. Of course I don't expect new people to search for a topic before they post, and that has nothing to do with what 'yart' has come to mean.

The yart card remains *rude* because of the perception that is perpetuated by assumptions, not the reality of its use and the intentions behind. There IS a difference if you make one. Nobody complains when I call a "self-yart", and something tells me that etaoin knows very well that his question didn't necessarily need an apology included...

... and, my tendency is to assume that someone will take offence to my above words, but I'd rather choose the assumption that we can stop ever talking about this again...


#119503 - 01/11/04 07:38 PM Re: yart schmart  
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well, pish-posh on the whole yart thang, but that first link was a great discussion. I shoulda 'membered that one... the tuning link was even the same one.



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#119504 - 01/11/04 10:25 PM Re: yart schmart  
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To hell with this perception of rudeness ~ yart is simply an attempt by anyone who is aware of previous discussions to connect up threads in the conversations here, for mutual enlightenment. What happens otherwise: are we to become cretinous goldfish that, three trips round the bowl, have forgotton our own names?

If anyone is so bloody-minded to discover rancour when none is meant, caveat emptor. P~


#119505 - 01/11/04 10:36 PM Re: yart schmart  
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I'm smilin', I'm smilin'!

so, harmony and arithmetic share the same root. ar. seems like pretty amazing concepts to come out of such a little syllable. not to mention the other words that Fald listed. or yart and schmart



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#119506 - 01/12/04 01:06 AM Re: yart schmart  
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Hey--does that explain this from mav's story, then?
Jim Farquhar ... carrying the name that meant ‘dear one’



#119507 - 01/12/04 01:12 AM Re: yart schmart  
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In reply to:

To hell with this perception of rudeness ~ yart is simply an attempt by anyone who is aware of previous discussions to connect up threads in the conversations here, for mutual enlightenment.
If anyone is so bloody-minded to discover rancour when none is meant, caveat emptor.



And from the very top of the world was there heard a loud Amen!


#119508 - 01/12/04 01:36 AM Re: yart schmart  
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are we to become cretinous goldfish that, three trips round the bowl, have forgotton our own names?

And the little plastic castle is a surprise every time.


#119509 - 01/13/04 07:26 PM Re: yart schmart  
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Now didn't we already outline the rules for calling "YART" in a previous thread...? [ducks and runs for cover]


#119510 - 01/13/04 10:54 PM Why I oughta...  
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#119511 - 01/13/04 10:59 PM Re: Why I oughta...  
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Tell the website's author how to spell Karma?


#119512 - 01/13/04 11:09 PM Re: Why I oughta...  
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But isn't that from one of the Stooges original skits? It sounds very familiar...

BTW, Kamic = Comic


#119513 - 01/13/04 11:18 PM Re: Why I oughta...  
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>But isn't that from one of the Stooges original skits?

Oh, sorry, I didn't know. I've never liked them, or got why others do.


#119514 - 01/13/04 11:20 PM I got nothin  
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Maybe Alex can tell you... (eg)


#119515 - 01/14/04 12:14 AM Re: Why I oughta...  
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re: I've never liked them

i did, till about age 7.. then began to find them boring.

i suppose they are funny in a very silly, childish way.. i just don't understand why an adult would find them funny.


#119516 - 01/14/04 02:24 AM Just a boy at heart  
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In reply to:

i just don't understand why an adult would find them funny.


Well, I think musick himself has claimed he's not really an adult...[running for cover, ducking, EGing all the way]




#119517 - 01/14/04 04:10 PM Claimed Schmaimed  
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On Sat. night, between the hours of 7 and 8pm (the after dinner - relax and hang with my cat time), the boob-tube (comedy) choices are: 'reality' shows, "Stooge Fest" and BBC-Keeping Up Appearances/Vicar of Dibley.

I rest my *case.


#119518 - 01/19/04 02:46 PM Re: Claimed Schmaimed  
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Isn't YART an acronym for "Yet Another Rehashed Topic?" And doesn't using an acronym imply all of it's original meaning and inflection? I find both the phrase and its attendant acronym sarcastic and dismissive. Rude? Maybe not intentionally. Am I being overly sensitive? Ummm... maybe. But then I avoid using ASAP in written correspondence in favor of "as soon as convenient."
Now I need a damned winkie emoticon to show I'm not being too terribly "bloody-minded."


#119519 - 01/19/04 03:16 PM Re: winkie emoticon  
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Doug, put the word wink in these brackets: [ ]. I'll use the word blink (otherwise, it would just become the emoticon): [blink].
Quick lesson: for colors, you do the same thing, but you have to add the step of ending them, and you do that with a slash:   /. I'll use brown, because it won't actually change the color of the text you want changed.
You just put [brown]the text you want changed[/brown] and finish your sentence.
You start and stop italics (put i and /i in the brackets) and bolding (put b and /b) the same way. But do check yourself; if you put [wink[, for ex., it won't work; and if you forget to end it, then your text will be color-changed or italicized, etc., to the end of whatever you've written.


#119520 - 01/19/04 03:47 PM Re: winkie emoticon  
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Jackie:

This wink's for you.
Doug


#119521 - 01/19/04 04:48 PM Re: winkie emoticon  
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#119522 - 01/19/04 05:56 PM Re: I think that this, in itself is a YART ...  
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The YART word did/does translate to "yet another rehashed topic" and although the connotations way back when may have been that the YARTer shouldn't have YARTed, I think it's been a long, long time - at least 18 months - since that was the case. I haven't hesitated to either YART or to call a YART because it simply means that it's been discussed before. Since the search engine on this site is less than perfect and too damned literal for its - or anyone else's - good, YARTs are inevitable. And desirable, because quite often it's fun to go over something again.

In as much as this word-based site hasn't generated that many neologisms, surely one FLA is not one two many?


#119523 - 01/19/04 06:58 PM Re: I think that this, in itself is a YART ...  
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> surely one FLA is not one two many?

It was for Gore supporters in 'OO.


#119524 - 01/20/04 06:31 AM Re: I think that this, in itself is a YART ...  
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YARTer shouldn't have YARTed
Self-reference is a dangerous trap. You easily get lost in the mirror-hall.


#119525 - 01/20/04 10:41 AM Re: music and math  
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Thanks to a point and gentle shove from our new Nuncle I discovered this interesting datum: Music majors do better at computer programming than do math majors.

http://mathforum.org/epigone/math-teach/bendpayjing/12grknzo95xh@legacy

Scroll down to the fifth paragraph after [Ruth].


#119526 - 01/20/04 12:20 PM Re: music and math  
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that's a great reference, Fald, thanks. it took me to several other sites with even more valauble info. we music teachers keep saying this, but people don't always listen...



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#119527 - 01/20/04 10:39 PM Re: music and math  
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Musical people always have made better programmers. Maths only teaches you logic. Music teaches you logic and feeling. That's the difference.


#119528 - 01/22/04 01:36 AM Re: music and math-yeah, really!  
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http://www.justintonation.net/primer2.html
a very interesting read about the history of intonation. plenty to think about if the Well-Tempereds hadn't gotten their way...



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#119529 - 01/22/04 02:19 AM Re: Just in tone  
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Looks good, cygne.


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