|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
And then, there's 'script' and 'scripture'. Seems to me they have the same root, scribere...?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 81
journeyman
|
|
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 81 |
A more surprising relative is shrive, as in Shrovetide and short shrift. The Latin word must have been borrowed into Germanic early enough that we got the Old English change of sc to sh, and also it developed a strong past tense, shrive - shrove - shriven.
Presumably the meaning changed something like writing -> written instruction for penance -> penance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
They all relate back to the Latin verb scribere - true enough, and if you listen to the sound of the word, you realize it's origin in the activity of scratching traces on an earthenware tablet. It thus predates the existence of letters, which is borne out in the derived word circumscribe.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Wow--wow! This is amazing! Scratching...yes. Wow! I looked up shrive and found [Middle English schriven, from Old English scrīfan, from Latin scrībere, to write.] . What does giving/doing penance/absolution have to do with writing? Surely they didn't used to? Esp. since so few in the Middle Ages could read.
I finally looked up cacoëthes scribendi in wwftd: the irresistible urge to write . Last night on TV there was a (true) crime show in which the husband was acquitted of murdering his wife, in part because her epileptic condition caused her to fill the walls of their home with writing, none of which gave any possible motive for murder. (Aside: and, yet again--I looked at this morning's paper, and there, with some minor changes, was the recipe for the dish I made for supper last night.)
I looked up stelliscript, too, and was pleased that I had guessed its meaning.
All of you--please put on your thinking caps. This kind of thread is what this board is supposed to be about (except for my little personal asides, sorry).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Presumably the meaning changed something like writing -> written instruction for penance -> penance.
Jenet, I don't follow you here. Could you expand?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear wsieber: I have often used a tool called a scriber, to make marks on metal where a cut is to be made.
Here's an advertisement:
Johnson Level & Tool 400 12" Combination Square with Scriber. Only $6.99.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
[some diac. markings lost]
[Com. Teut. (wanting in Gothic): OE. scrífan (-scráf, scrifon, e-scrifen), to allot, assign, decree, adjudge, impose as a sentence, impose penance, regard, care for, corresp. to OFris. scrîva (skref, skreven), to write, impose penance (WFris. skriuwe, skreau, skreaun, NFris. skriiw, skreew, skrewen, EFris. schriuwe to write), OS. skrîan to write, (M)LG. schrîven, schreev, schrêven, MDu. schrîven, screef, ghescrêven to write, paint, describe (Du. schrijven, schreef, geschreven), OHG. scrîban, MHG. scrîben, schreip, geschriben to write, draw, paint, describe, appoint, prescribe (G. schreiben, schrieb, geschrieben), ON. and Icel. (weak and with short ) skrifa, -aa, -ar to paint, write, MSw. skriva, -adhe, -adhu, (strong) skref, skrivin, Sw. skrifva, skref, skrifven, Da. skrive, skrev, skreven (locally also weak); ad. L. scribere to write.]
the Old Frisian connection "to write, impose penance" seems pointed, but murky!
also, have we mentioned proscribe and prescribe?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
also, have we mentioned proscribe and prescribe?Or their dreaded adjectival forms? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
Proscription is an almost direct lift from the Latin, but its meaning has become gentler than was once its lot. During Tiberius' reign, one scrofulous pleb called Sejanus wound up running Rome on a day-to-day basis. People who he didn't like, which seemed to include most of the patrician class, were proscribed, i.e. they were declared to be non-people, their goods largely confiscated by the State and their persons liable to summary execution.
Rome was a minor bloodbath for some years. Tiberius finally reacted when it was demonstrated to him that Sejanus was intent on gaining the purple for himself. He was summarily executed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
It wasn't Sejanus (who later went on to be Captain Picard) who invented proscriptions. That dubious honour belongs to Sulla in the 80s BC. From Plutarch's Life of Sulla (section 31) Sulla now busied himself with slaughter, and murders without number or limit filled the city. Many, too, were killed to gratify private hatreds, although they had no relations with Sulla, but he gave his consent in order to gratify his adherents. At last one of the younger men, Caius Metellus, made bold to ask Sulla in the senate what end there was to be of these evils, and how far he would proceed before they might expect such doings to cease. "We do not ask thee," he said, "to free from punishment those whom thou hast determined to slay, but to free from suspense those whom thou hast determined to save." And when Sulla answered that he did not yet know whom he would spare, "Well, then," said Metellus in reply, "let us know whom thou intendest to punish." This Sulla said he would do. Some, however, say that it was not Metellus, but Fufidius, one of Sulla's fawning creatures, who made this last speech to him. Be that as it may, Sulla at once proscribed eighty persons, without communicating with any magistrate; and in spite of the general indignation, after a single day's interval, he proscribed two hundred and twenty others, and then on the third day, as many more. Referring to these measures in a public harangue, he said that he was proscribing as many as he could remember, and those who now escaped his memory, he would proscribe at a future time. He also proscribed any one who harboured and saved a proscribed person, making death the punishment for such humanity, without exception of brother, son, or parents, but offering any one who slew a proscribed person two talents as a reward for this murderous deed, even though a slave should slay his master, or a son his faith. And what seemed the greatest injustice of all, he took away the civil rights from the sons and grandsons of those who had been proscribed, and confiscated the property of all. Moreover, proscriptions were made not only in Rome, but also in every city of Italy, and neither temple of God, nor hearth of hospitality, nor paternal home was free from the stain of bloodshed, but husbands were butchered in the embraces of their wedded wives, and sons in the arms of their mothers. Those who fell victims to political resentment and private hatred were as nothing compared with those who were butchered for the sake of their property, nay, even the executioners were prompted to say that his great house killed this man, his garden that man, his warm baths another. Quintus Aurelius, a quiet and inoffensive man, who thought his only share in the general calamity was to condole with others in their misfortunes, came into the forum and read the list of the proscribed, came into the forum and read the list of the proscribed, and finding his own name there, said, "Ah! woe is me! my Alban estate is prosecuting me." And he had not gone far before he was dispatched by some one who had hunted him down. http://makeashorterlink.com/?A28E510C5Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,326
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
580
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
