Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#11494 11/29/00 09:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
shanks Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
Ann's postings on typesetting set me off on this. It's more a challenge than anything else, but fun anyway. What is the significance of the title of my post - both to the world of typesetting, and to that of code-breaking!

cheer

the sunshine warrior


#11495 11/29/00 03:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
"With the idea of speeding up..." research, here is Michael Quinion:
http://www.quinion.com/words/weirdwords/ww-eta1.htm

(but he only hints at the code-breaking part...)


#11496 11/29/00 05:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
B
veteran
Offline
veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
It's the frequency distribution of the letters in English words. See Sherlock Holmes in "The Dancing Men". It may be noted that there are other lists with different arrangements.


#11497 11/29/00 06:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788

A sophistication of the letter frequency method for cracking a simple code is provided by a knowlede of which digraphs and trigraphs appear most frequently in English, e.g. TH, HE, IN, ER, RE, AN, ON and IN; THE, AND, TIO, ATI, FOR, THA, TER and RES.



#11498 11/29/00 07:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
W
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Ok, OK, I got note from shanks re this subject and sent him a private note declining to be the one to introduce it. He has more courage than I do so he brought it up.
L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace is this Board's motto!
I have no idea about the cipher aspect, being hopeless at codes. That is all new and I will try to follow the answers on that. Good luck to me.
I ran into the phrase when my Dad first showed me a Linotype machine. Hey, I'm talking me as a toddler in the 1930s. Yes, I am an oldie.
The letters on the keyboard of a Linotype are not set up the same as a typewriter and the men who did typesetting were incredibly fast on their machines but could not transfer the skill, at speed, to a typewriter.
The Linotype makes lines of type from pigs of lead fed into the machine and heated to melt and reformed into letters and lines, the lines become banks of type that are locked into a form which later becomes part of a page. If a typesetter made a mistake he would make an X on the keyboard (starting in upper left) and the type would set as ETAOIN SHRDLU. - (My favorite swear word) - Typesetters' eyes could pick out the X'd line at a glance and remove both it and the line before it where the mistake was made. So there you go, that's my explanation.
As an aside : when visitors came through the typesetting area the operators would often set the persons name in type for them which the typesetter handed to the visitor. The men's hands were toughened to the heat but visitors got a gift of HOT type and the typesetter got a chuckle and a "gotcha" for slowing the work.
Linotype operators (typesetters) belong to one of the oldest unions. Newspapers were among the first businesses to be "automated." That's another thread for a different board.
If any of you have a newspaper near you that still uses one of the great HOE presses, ask for a tour. You'll learn a bit about how type is made, how the technique was apllied to computers, and you'll have a great time.
That's it. I am off the printing, typesetting thread for good. Why did I ever start with it? Not another word. No explanations for type lice or buckets of steam or left-handed quion keys, or chocolate kerns, or a 10 point minion, or a woolen offset blanket. And if shanks wants to go off on horseback and also intoduce the keyboards used by signalmen in WWII well, don't expect a word from me. (I heard that!)
Blessings on you all. wow


#11499 11/29/00 07:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
W
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
This is really my last word...I read the link and I admit my mistake....it was not an X, rather the top lines of the keyboard. I was a five-year-old for heaven's sake!
wow


#11500 11/30/00 09:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
shanks Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
And is probably the only way to crack codes of the Playfair type - with doublets being transposed?


#11501 11/30/00 09:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
shanks Offline OP
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
Thanks for that Ann.

The point being (just stating the obvious here) that they were on the top for the logical reason that they are the most frequently used letters - as most of the code-breakers below have appreciated. If we hadn't the historical accident of qwerty keyboards, we might well be using etaoin keyboards these days...


#11502 11/30/00 01:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
codes of the Playfair type

Sounds like a merger between Playboy and Mayfair!

Reference or explanation please, shanks.



#11503 11/30/00 02:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
W
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
May I recommend a book to those who love ciphers/codes/good story ? "From SIlk To Cyanide" by Marks. Published within the last year in US. As noted I am hopeless with codes but this is also a whacking good tale, and true. The writer is the son of the owner-founder of Marks & Co of London, a bookstore that is featured in the delightful tale "34 Charing Cross Road." The story is set in England in WWII years where he was in the business of helping spies. Anyone who has done some reading on WWII will recognize the names of many spies who became famous after the war when their work and sacrifice were finally recognized. Happy reading, wow


Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 302 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5