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I came across the phrase "vim and vigor" the other day and, struck by its repetitive nature, was reminded of when "kit and caboodle" came up here a while back. have we covered (nearly) equivalent pairings?
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Carpal Tunnel
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A professor with whom I studied long, long ago told me that, when there appears to be a redundancy in such a pairing, it is often because one Anglo-Saxon (Germanic) word has been coupled with one Norman (Latin) word. He pointed to a dozen examples of this in the 1549 and 1552 Books of Common Prayer, although it was so long ago, I don't recall the examples.
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Carpal Tunnel
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This is not exactly the same, but...flesh and blood.
Hale and hearty. Part and parcel? Hack and slash.
Far and wide (maybe).
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enthusiast
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Prim and proper.
Neat and tidy.
It occurs to me, though, that there may be a sub-class of these expressions where the words are (almost) always coupled, such as "spick and span". Then again, if they can't be used separately, perhaps they don't qualify as redundant pairings??
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Carpal Tunnel
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kith and kin?
and in the negitive, neither fair nor foul? (so it what?)
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Carpal Tunnel
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Ship-shape and Bristol fashion?
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>Ship-shape and Bristol fashion?  now there's one that's not often heard in the Minnesota woods.
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Carpal Tunnel
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rack and ruin.
(Bristol fashion?? Background, please)
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stranger
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Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
(Bristol fashion? Background please)
The following sounds plausible:
"Bristol: Ship-shape and Bristol fashion means that everything is neat and tidy. This saying comes from two aspects of the old Bristol docks in the days before the Floating Harbour was established in the 1830s. Bristol had, and still has, one of the largest differences of water level between ebb and flood in the World, something like 10 metres. At low tide ships in the harbour, if not really properly constructed and laden, would either break their backs or their cargoes would shift. Because of this, Bristol ships were always first class in these respects, hence the saying. The Floating Harbour was constructed by Brunel in order to overcome the tide problem. "
source: http://www.briggs13.fsnet.co.uk/book/b.htm
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old hand
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Marty
I think you have something here - though mildly off-thread.
Whatever has become of words like fro (to and fro), and gruntled (yes, yes, I know that's a joke one)? Will they even survive within their specific phrases/words?
Will I gain weight this Christmas?
Questions, questions...
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veteran
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The most famous example is "pray" and "beseech", as in "We pray and beseech Thee" which not only appears in English prayer books, but in the 1929 Episcopal prayerbook. "Pray" is, of course, from French and "beseech" from Old English.
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Pooh-Bah
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>neither fair nor foul?
I know this one as neither fish nor foul (but don't get shona started!!!)
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Pooh-Bah
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Bristol fashion
There is a often little double entendre in the use of this phrase as bristol or bristols feature in Cockney rhyming slang (Bristol City).
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Carpal Tunnel
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In the same vein, but not redundant, is the phrase, friend nor foe, as in, the weather is not fit for friend nor foe (to mean it is so bad you wouldn't even want an enemy out in it)
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Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
Bristol fashion
There is a often little double entendre in the use of this phrase as bristol or bristols feature in Cockney rhyming slang (Bristol City).
honi soit qui mal y pense! 
Until I did a Google search for the origin of "shipshape and Bristol fashion", I had never heard the rhyming slang that you make reference to. I can assure you that the people I learned the phrase from used it without so much as a tendril of double entendre attached.
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to and fro, fair nor foul (or fish nor fowl), friend nor foe, feast or famine -- these are pairings of opposites. it didn't take us long to come 180° on this topic.
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Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
I know this one as neither fish nor foul
I've always known it as neither fish nor fowl nor good red herring.
Bingley
Bingley
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old hand
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You never heard of a pair of Bristols? Can't be Brit then - or haven't watched enough "Carry on..." movies.
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yes, i have heard, neither fish ....herring.
I have heard that in the past, some catholics, looking for excuses, used to eat goose on fasting days.
they held that some species of goose arose from a goose barnacle, so it was neither fish (seafood) nor fowl, and as such was exempt from rules on fasting. how the good red herring got added I haven't a clue.
and neither fair nor foul made me thing of " raining and storming"
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neither fish nor fowlI've heard this bit, but without the red herring! Which led me to wondering where "red herring" came from, to which M-W answered: Main Entry: red herring
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : a herring cured by salting and slow smoking to a dark brown color
2 [from the practice of drawing a red herring across a trail to confuse hunting dogs] : something that distracts attention from the real issue.Would too many red herring(s) lead you on a wild goose chase? Oh, and I think it's "neither fair wind nor foul".
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never heard of a pair of Bristols?
Why is everybody being so coy, here? For the benefit of (I imagine) confused readers out there, let me make this abundantly clear:
Bristol >> Bristol City >> titty >> tit
And for once I agree with Heinlein, in that this is just a variant on "teat" rather than an offensive word.
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(nearly) equivalent pairings
Half and half is precisely equivalent, though certainly not redundant!
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Dear Fishonabike, My SOED has five noun "tit" definitions and two verb definition. One of my quite old US dictionaries defines tit as a shortened term for titmouse. Under titmouse the SOED gives first meaning as a bird of the genus Parus and a second as a small, petty or insignificant thing. How does this affect references to tits?
Any comments? As if you could pass on this chance! wow
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Carpal Tunnel
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You never heard of a pair of Bristols? Can't be Brit then - or haven't watched enough "Carry on..." movies.Right on both counts. I remember going to the movies to see one of the "Carry On" movies as a child of around 8 ('75 or '76), and didn't find it at all funny. Maybe that was my father's intention!
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Kith and kin are not redundant, meaning friends and neighbors, but kin also having the meaning of kinfolks. It was meant to mean a wider circle than either one, if I recall correctly.
TEd
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Wow - look at this! (Merriam-Webster http://www.webster.com) Main Entry: tit
Pronunciation: 'tit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English -- more at TEAT
Date: before 12th century
1 : TEAT
2 usually vulgar : BREAST -- usually used in pluralActually I was moderately surprised to find it listed, let alone as first meaning. Looks like Heinlein made a difference
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Since we're talking about red herrings I thought this might be appropriate... http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/archives/0600Scroll down to June 26 It's time for the human race to enter the solar system. --Governor George W. Bush Jr.
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coincidentally, yerterday's wwftd was a red herring type of word: malism.
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coincidentally, today's Maven's word-of-the-day suggests some more redundancies: aiding and abetting to have and to hold and... rape and pillage (in the original sense of rape) http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/
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