Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#112626 09/25/03 02:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Jackie Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
I seem to recall that this question has been brought up here before; but a Search revealed approx. 1300 entries for the word England, so...
How did that country get its name?


Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
This is nothing more than a swag from an ses, but I'd say it was the Land of the Angles, Angle-Land.


Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
D
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
D
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Comes from Angul, a district in Schleswig, North Germany. Some of the local tribe moved to, and settled in, eastern parts of England - what is now called East Anglia.

There is a tale that I have heard that when the Romans first came to Britain they saw these fair haired people and thought they looked liked like angels which gave rise to the name; but that sounds to me like a Victorian invention or maybe William Blake (it's a bit Jerusalem-ish).


Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Thanks for supporting my swag, dxb.


Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
when the Romans first came to Britain they saw these fair haired people

Close, but no seegar. The story was about some Pope who, upon receiving moral support or some such things said, of the Angles, "Not Angles, but angels." Works perfectly good in Latin, too, maybe even better than in English. I could look it up if someone who knows more doesn't beat me to it.

Otherwise, you've got it right, dxb.


Edit:

It was Pope Gregory, and it was in response to seeing some Angles for sale in a slave market. According to this site http://sspx.ca/Angelus/2000_December/St_Augustine_of_Canterbury.htm he wasn't Pope yet. The Latin is : Non Angli, sed angeli. I'm assuming the G was still hard in angeli.

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
And while we're at it, why is an English Muffin English?


Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
D
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
D
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Faldage - Absolutely. The moment I started to read your post it all came back to me, even the Latin tag. I still think the story is most likely a nice invention! Interesting, as you point out, that the pun suggests that the 'g' was hard in angeli.

Thanks for the correction. I checked back from the link and found that the book containing it was published in 1985. Well ... it's a pretty enough tale.





Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
D
dxb Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
D
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
An English muffin, of the kind you buy in the States, is not English. Muffins that are sold in England as "muffins" are more savoury in character and might be eaten as an alternative to crumpets - pause ... I've never had a crumpet in the US of A ... do you have such things? (no crude comments, thank you, keep your minds on food).

The irony is that you can now buy English muffins in the UK that are actually American - just spongey cakes in a paper "bun case". Intended as a single portion but really far too big to be healthy as such.

Think I should go and hide now because I'm sure lots of folk will disagree with almost everything I've said!


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
englihs muffins,(in US) are flat disks, made from a yeasty batter, so the interior texture is very open --large yeasty holes, not the fine dough/crumb to found in bread.

The dough (when home made) is cut with a circle cutter (a biscut cutter in US term), and placed on a hot griddle (which in US is a flat pan, often made of cast iron) which was heated on the stove top, and the muffins are turned over, and the other side is cooked in the pan too. this give the 'muffins' flat tops and bottoms; commercial muffins are baked.

in size, the are just about 3 inches (or about the size of a cured pork loin (US canadian bacon)) the are savory (ie, not sweetened)

to serve, they are split- exposing the open texture of the dough, toasted and then served with butter and/or jam, or cream cheese. They also serve a base for such dishes as 'egg benidict'(aka 'heart attack on a plate"=poached eggs served on a buttered muffin, with canadian bacon and hollandaise sause!)

they are more like crumpets than anything else i can think of, (crumpets are cooks first on a stove top, and finished in an oven, right? )

Muffins sold (baked)in a paper bun case (in US Cupcake papers!) are usually sweet, and here too, they have become oversized.


#112635 09/26/03 01:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
It's based on a story from Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People. It comes from his obituary notice of Gregory the Great:

Nor is the account of St. Gregory, which has been handed down to us by the tradition of our ancestors, to be passed by in silence, in relation to his motives for taking such interest in the salvation of our nation. It is reported, that some merchants, having just arrived at Rome on a certain day, exposed many things for sale in the marketplace, and abundance of people resorted thither to buy: Gregory himself went with the rest, and, among other things, some boys were set to sale, their bodies white, their countenances beautiful, and their hair very fine. Having viewed them, he asked, as is said, from what country or nation they were brought? and was told, from the island of Britain, whose inhabitants were of such personal appearance. He again inquired whether those islanders were Christians, or still involved in the errors of paganism? and was informed that they were pagans. Then fetching a deep sigh from the bottom of his heart, "Alas! what pity," said he, "that the author of darkness is possessed of men of such fair countenances; and that being remarkable for such graceful aspects, their minds should be void of inward grace." He therefore again asked, what was the name of that nation? and was answered, that they were called Angles. "Right," said he, for they have an Angelic face, and it becomes such to be co-heirs with the Angels in heaven. What is the name," proceeded he, "of the province from which they are brought?" It was replied, that the natives of that province were called Deiri. "Truly are they De ira," said he, "withdrawn from wrath, and called to the mercy of Christ. How is the king of that province called?" They told him his name was Ælla: and he, alluding to the name said, "Hallelujah, the praise of God the Creator must be sung in those parts."

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/bede-book2.html

Gregory died in 605. Bede was writing 120-130 years later. It was in this very work that Bede popularised the use of BC and AD for dating purposes.

Bingley


Bingley
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,316
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 471 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,533
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5