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Classicism and commercialism ????
I take it from this statement that people automatically feel because something is commercial it's inferior? It appears that many psuedo intellectuals feel that if the masses enjoy it then it must have no substance. To my mind the opposite is the case. A classic is something that holds greater reverence with the masses rather than something with a cult following of a vocal minority


#109413 08/06/03 10:26 PM
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...any number of other writers whom they consider worthy, but not one normal person in a hundred (or maybe in a thousand) would enjoy (or even understand)

That sounds like a *version of normalcy to me.

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I think people who are prone to a particular political bent - capitalism is ultimately corrupt - are the ones who think highly of either of these.
+
No. I made no statement that all those who dislike capitalism will like this book and this movie - not that everyone who dislikes C would like them, but that they'd be prone to liking them.


You said specifically people prone to the political *bend that "capitalism is ultimately corrupt" are the ones who "think highly of these" ("these" being the movie/book.) You may have not wished to say it, but you did. I stand by my extrapolation (not necessarily my response ).

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I assume most people are capable of understanding most things they're willing to put the effort into understanding.

I knew we were on the same page, basically.

- however -

Grouping academics into a *pile of pompousness is about as appropriate to this discussion as is accepting the lesser of two "evils" as a justification for normalcy... but let's not go there...

My point was: the Pope doesn't make "normal" standards for me, nor do I accept those from Oprah (ever so slightly less pious )...

...and on a seperate note...your opinion of her opinion shouldn't be grouped in with "the rest of the English speaking humanity".

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FF - We must reserve the rest of the political discussion for off board...


#109414 08/06/03 11:12 PM
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FF - We must reserve the rest of the political discussion for off board...

Thank you.


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I agree with lapsus linguae's definition of classic. Incidentally nice to hear from you, I haven't seen you around for a while. (or else I was so interested in the posts I didn't notice the poster)


#109416 08/07/03 02:14 PM
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I loathe slogans, but there's one saying I like in general. "The perfect is the enemy of the good."

I spend - as I suspect a good many AWADers spend - a fair amount of time in bookstores and libraries. There are huge sections on technology - rows of seven or eight foot shelves. This is fine by me, except it's harder than heck to find books on computer theory. The selection tends to be quite sparse. I can deal with the fact that a lot of the "science" books are pablum, but there are nearly as many books on spiritualism and religion and philosophy (which is also a lot of religion). There tend to be far more books in this arena than in real science. Plus the horoscopes, romance novels and the like. I'm not complaining. It's just an observation. I understand the bookstore is giving people what they want. They could stock the best books ever written at the cheapest prices and go out of business, as their potential customers would almost certainly go elsewhere.

Against this backdrop, I think Oprah has done well. It's not romance. It's not happy princess. It's not self-help or horoscopes or religion or political blather. If people don't like her recommendations, they are free to suggest alternatives. If the book is mediocre, it is at least not stupid. I would say the same thing had she recommended The Great Gatsby. Being less than perfect does not equate to being evil - at least not to my mind. I don't think we will improve the minds of the public by jumping straight to the Ulysses (even if it is the greatest novel in the English language, which I disbelieve). If you're thirsting in the desert and someone offers you a coke, do you refuse because "I really need pure water?" By any standard, her choice is okay.

I don't understand the relevance of normalcy to the discussion. I have described (above) a portion of what I perceive as the status quo. Oprah (for reasons I do not know) has started a "book club" to highlight and discuss books she has enjoyed. I don't know what books she discussed in her other book club. I don't what other books she has discussed in THIS club. I have not said directly, but indicated indiretly, that this book is a step above what appears the norm to me - getting people to try something they might not otherwise be inclined to try, namely "a classic." There are plenty of books she might have chosen better, but this is not a bad choice. Moby Dick would have been a better choice had she chosen Typee, but maybe she hasn't read Moby Dick or maybe she didn't like it (an understandable reaction).

There are always better choices. Those possibilities don't make her choice bad or wrong.

k




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So it may be a good question to ask anyone who has loved novels:

"Which book would you have chosen as the first novel in the classics series?"

That question is even better than the desert island one.

I think I'd choose Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.


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What would I recommend as a first book?

I'm not sure, but I'd probably do a little research first. Maybe I'd recommend Of Mice and Men. Afterward the fellow participants and I could see various movie depictions of the story and compare notes. If I was familiar with East of Eden, perhaps I'd think it was a good first choice.

A Tale of Two Cities or Madame Bovary would be great choices. Les Miserables would also make an excellent first story, but I suspect the academics would complain about it's romanticism. But it's particularly a good idea, as many people have at least heard of the musical and may already have their interest piqued.

I'd like to suggest War and Peace, but I don't think that would be a good first choice - any more than Moby Dick or Ulysses would be good first choices. It's more something to work toward.

That it's doubtful I would suggest the same book as Oprah should, of course, in no way be construed as a criticism of her selection.

k



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one advantage of a 'book club' reading, even if its not a real book club, is you can find someone else reading the book..

i remember some years (20 or so!) picking up Joseph Waumbaug's The Onion Fields -- i started it, and chapters were good... but the book didn't make any sense... i was about to give up on it, when one of my sister's and my mother saw me with it, and asked how do you like it..

i told them i was about to give up, it made no sense, and they both said, "you're just about page 100 right? read a few more chapters..it will all come to gether, and love it..
and so i plowed on. By page 125, the book had turned arround. all the threads of the previous chapters, that seems to have nothing to do with each other, suddenly came together into a riviting story. I would have missed it, but for a bit of luck.

Sharing books, whether in an informal club, or in a formal one is a great way to read. every one brings there own experience, and understanding. oprah's choice of books might not be great ones, but they are for the most part interesting books, and because of her recommendations, you can almost always finds someone else reading the book at the same time.

Many of the oprah book club books have comments or afterwords by the author, some have a list of questions for discussion. sure they are fomula type questions, but romeo and juilette, is boy meet girl, fall in love, seperate, get to gether, and tragicly die... there are lots of formulas in fiction, it doesn't make them all bad.



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I can't say I'm personally enthusiastic about any of Oprah's reading suggestions, but then again I don't think they are aimed at someone like me, or anyone else on this board really. I think what Oprah is doing, though, is wonderful.

Most people working average jobs never read much in school, and their parents probably didn't read much to them either. They took the easier classes, and probably got by with a large dose of Cliff's Notes on top of that. After high school they didn't go to college, or if they did, they majored in business or accounting or something and didn't read much. Hell, most of the physicians I know haven't read much beyond the odd John Grisham novel. They wouldn't know Atticus Finch from Barney Fife.

We live in a different world from those people. I really don't consider myself particularly well-read, but to a lot of people with average educations I am some sort of walking library. When I make recommendations of books to people, though, they won't read them. They don't have time. They're not interested. Alex has weird taste. I couldn't talk a confectioner into reading Roald Dahl, but Oprah ... now that's another story.

I don't think critics need to concern themselves with Oprah. Her choices are beneath their contempt, and I mean that in a good way. Instead of sneering, they should just be glad that she is doing remedial work with a nation that didn't learn much in school.* Let people enjoy East of Eden. If they like it, say to them, "well here's one that's even better," and give them a copy of something you like. And while you're at it, toss in something for their kid.


*Disclaimer: I had to look up the spelling of "remedial." LOL


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>I can't say I'm personally enthusiastic about any of Oprah's reading suggestions, but then again I don't think they are aimed at someone like me..

of course not; they were aimed at (the women in) her audience -- and she knew her demographics.


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