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#109168 08/03/03 07:12 PM
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I was working at Queen's University t'other day, and noticed a sign that said I had entered an area that was friendly towards and supportive of individuals who are "gay, lesbian, trans-identified, queer" - there was at least one other term in there I can't remember.

This confused me. I thought "queer" was just another word for "gay," so I looked it up in my trusty Canuck Oxford. That's essentially what it said, too, with the addendum that while gays have appropriated the term and use it amongst themselves, it is still considered somewhat abusive if used about a gay by a non-gay.

"Trans-identified," it didn't list.

So what could "queer" possibly mean in this context, where the word "gay" had already been used? Does it have a cultural connotation, perhaps? ie, is a queer a gayer gay than a gay, or something?

And what does "trans-identified" mean? Is it what I would know as "cross-dressing" or "transvestite" or is it more complicated than that? Is it someone who is awaiting a sex-change operation or something?


#109169 08/03/03 08:38 PM
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Gay friends and acquaintances in my experience mean exactly what you understood about the similarity (and difference of intent) between the expressions gay and queer. I have not encountered any different meaning ~ but perhaps one is emerging in some particular niche culture.

When a gay person uses a term like "queer" to refer to another gay person, everyone understands that it is not meant unkindly, because within the community the meaning of that term has been changed by mutual consent. This happens all the time within minority groups and members of those groups understand the process.

http://www.io.com/~wwwomen/queer/etiquette/chap5c.html


Trans-identified certainly refers to all those people who feel their interior sexuality does not match their natal gender, and who choose to realign themselves by some action or social statement. I’ll be interested to hear others’ take on these though – I could be completely outta da loop!



#109170 08/03/03 09:35 PM
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I, too, would take trans-identified to mean trans-sexual, i.e., pretty much what mav said. It could range from mere cross dressing with the addition of taking on the opposite sex's characteristics to a complete surgical sex change. Cross dressing by itself would not qualify as trans-identification.


#109171 08/04/03 02:23 AM
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Thanks, guys.

mav, that's a great link - very clear and helpful info.

I still wish I knew why that particular sign listed both "gay" and "queer," as though referring to two different states of being. Can anyone else help with this?


#109172 08/04/03 02:59 AM
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I most often hear "transgender".



formerly known as etaoin...
#109173 08/04/03 03:05 AM
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As I understand it (which is not very well having always been more interested in the practice than the theory), queer implies some sort of fluid identity which is somehow at odds with mainstream beliefs about self, and is a somewhat wider term than gay or transexual or whatever since it's not just to do with sexuality and gender.

Bingley


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#109174 08/04/03 10:54 AM
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some sort of fluid identity which is somehow at odds with mainstream beliefs about self

I would take this def to mean that, by contrast, gay implied a more mainstream approach to life in general. The pointy haired boss might be gay, but he'd never be queer.


#109175 08/04/03 01:41 PM
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I still wish I knew why that particular sign listed both "gay" and "queer," as though referring to two different states of being.

Maybe they wanted to play both sides of the fence by sending a greeting from gays and non-gays to non-gays and gays.

A gay person seeing that welcome would know that he is at home in that area with fellow "queers", as well as with non-gays who respect his sexual orientation.

Next time you are there, why not ask? I am curious about the answer as well.


#109176 08/04/03 08:15 PM
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...why not ask?

I plan to. I meant to the first time I saw it, actually, but the office was closed by the time my shift was over. Maybe I should have asked the instructor/students....Anyway, I mean to find out one way or another. I'm more curious than the proverbial dead cat.


#109177 08/04/03 10:42 PM
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News from the frontline of language creation and recreation in London, reported in today’s The Times of London by columnist Richard Morrison:

Yes, we do speak English in Hendon. But the baffling and wonderful thing about 21st-century English is that it is both the premier tool of global communication and also the language you use if you want to bamboozle completely your next-door neighbour. […] English, it seems to me, occupies the same position today as Latin 1,600 years ago. It is a lingua franca on the verge of splintering into half a dozen entirely separate tongues. […] When my son says “you chat bare breeze”, he means I am talking rubbish. That’s not so difficult to work out, perhaps, once you realise that “bare” is used in the sense of “unvarnished” or “undisguised”. But “you’re gay, man”, which you now constantly hear as a term of abuse in London playgrounds, did once offend and puzzle me – wishy-washy liberal that I am. The fact is, thought, that the word “gay” has changed its meaning radically for the third time in 50 years. To our grandparents it meant happy. To middle-aged adults it is respectful slang for homosexuals, replacing the offensive “queer”. But to young teenage boys it means outdated, old, useless – since they use the Ali G phrase “batty boy” (itself derived from Jamaican slang for buttocks) to mean homosexual. Meanwhile, ironically, among some progressive gay activists, “queer” seems to be an acceptable label again.

I still think he is probably misjudging the mood in that last sentence but. fwiw, in the rural western marches of Wales my bilingual 15 year-old son confirms that in his age range gay still equates to homosexual but also has the additional inversion of meaning "sad" (but not neccessarily "old, useless") - a bit like cool = hot, bad = good, no doubt.

Bingley's comment makes sense.

but what on earth are you still only practising for, Bingley?! :)



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