Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#106273 06/22/03 07:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
tsuwm Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
A cultural-linguistic study of English sound-symbolic
pejorative lexemes beginning in sl- and du-

http://www.trismegistos.com/Iconicityinlanguage/articles/mcCrum/



#106274 06/22/03 09:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Slow to digest, but of durable value... thanks, tsuwm.


#106275 06/22/03 11:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
seeing as I got lost in about the second sentence, does he ever explain why the sounds sl and du are the ones that developed to be negative?



formerly known as etaoin...
#106276 06/23/03 12:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Slow to digest, but of durable value

You bein' dissed, tsuwm?


#106277 06/23/03 12:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
bein' dissed

Slim chance, ducks.


#106278 06/23/03 08:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Take the Michael ~ mer-oiiiii? :)

As to the argument of the paper, if I understand the outline, his argument is "that the integrated factors of phonetic motivation, psycholinguistic processes and socio-cultural motivation are responsible for the Proteus-like resilience and power of the 'pejorative' sl- schema and the historical localisation of the pejorative du- schema. That is to say, rather than any one of these factors being responsible for schema development, this is a combinatory process."

Or in plainer English, it's a combination of factors based on submorphemic characterisations ~ on which we subsequently accrete a complex association of cultural values. So if two or three words group around a common soundscape and have a similar tonality of meaning or social denotation, it's very likely that other words based on a similar 'scale' will be modulated in their structure to end up according with the same sounds. For example, if you notice (consciously or unconciously register) that words like crack and smack are part of a common family, it's not surprising to find yourself coining a neologism in a comic such as "thwack". [Yeah, I know Michael, it's at this point you tell me the OED cites thwack from about 932AD but :) ]

At least I think this simplification is at the root of the processes the author discusses, which are obviously more subtly examined in all their complexity.


#106279 06/23/03 11:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
tsuwm Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
>it's at this point you tell me the OED cites thwack from about 932AD..

wrong, duack-breath. but it did come along about 1530 ce, as we find Heywood writing, "I shall bete her and thwak her." and the venerable bard, in 1607: Here's he that was wont to thwacke our Generall, Biggus Martius., proving once again that he fronted the blacklisted Julius (Kaiser) Brooks.


#106280 07/01/03 02:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
does he ever explain why the sounds sl and du are the ones that developed to be negative?
Well first, if you (or anyone) thinks I'm going to actually READ all of something like that, then you have me confused!

But, I would venture to guess that nowhere in there does he allege that these are the only two sounds that have, uh, slipped down to the dungeon. (And I'm sure also that he isn't saying that all words with these sounds are pejorative; look at slim and slender, for ex.)

I think it makes sense, when you think about it, that images/emotions would come to be associated with certain sounds--that's how we get onomatopoeia, after all. And it only takes a slightly larger stretch of the imagination to think of these same associations carrying over to similar words/sounds.

Interestingly enough, I was doing an unrelated search just a little while ago, and came across a post that not only reflects my own mindset, but may even have influenced it (too long ago to remember for sure, Sweetie), and was hoping to find an apt spot to quote it. Here 'tis:
What I am moving towards is the general *belief that what distinguishes us at our very core is our tendency to make patterns. This is true of language, true of visual sense, and surely true of the other ways we think, such as forming theories. We tend to adopt short-cuts (perception theory is littered with examples of how the brain ‘fools itself’) and discard material that doesn’t sit happily with our frame of reference – because ultimately it is not the veracity but the aesthetics of the pattern that counts to a key part of our imagination!

As a matter of fact I believe this is what John Keats means by “beauty is truth…”


http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=7585






#106281 07/01/03 02:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
thank you, mav and Jackie. I think that's what I was thinking.
no, really.



formerly known as etaoin...
#106282 07/01/03 11:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
'Course you were, Honey!


#106283 07/01/03 11:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
beauty is truth

If that's what led Keats to believe that beauty is truth then I submit that he had it flat backwards. Beauty is the order, the pattern, that we impose on truth and a distortion of it and, in that distortion, the exact opposite of truth.


#106284 07/01/03 12:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
I'm trying to reflect on this, but it's like looking in a fun-house mirror...

need more coffee...



formerly known as etaoin...
#106285 07/01/03 12:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
fun-house mirror

Perhaps. I think the imposed distortion of reality comes closer to Truth as it is most often used. I think I'll join you in that nother cup of coffee, Cygne.


#106286 07/01/03 05:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Hmm. Faldage, if I understand your post correctly, you are saying that a distortion is the exact opposite of truth. I don't think I can agree with that, in this context. You said, Beauty is the order, the pattern, that we impose on truth and a distortion of it . I wouldn't argue with that! But to me, the opposite of truth is a deliberate lie or misrepresentation, and when we impose order and patterns on "truth", this distortion is not deliberate--most of the time, anyway. It comes from our personal frames of reference: our experiences. For ex.: say that two people are looking down on a field of flowers from aloft. There are two colors of flowers. Person A, who has never heard of or seen a Turkish coffee pot, says, "Oh, look--the red flowers are in the shape of a watering can". Person B, who has never heard of or seen a watering can, says, "The red flowers form the shape of a cesve*". Now, neither person is lying; both are saying what they "see". And I don't think this is "the exact opposite of truth". In this instance, the "truth" might be that the pattern of the red flowers is merely random.

*I will put the only link to a picture of a Turkish coffee pot that I found, BUT--it is a commercial site...come to think of it, I'd better not post it here. But I've saved it, so if anyone is desperately curious, PM me and I'll send it to you. I will copy a quote from there, though, because this Gene person is from Lexington, KY: turkish coffee pot
Comments: “The Greeks call it an Ibrik; the Arabs call it a cezve. The point is, wherever your recipient goes, they'll have fresh Turkish coffee with them. Perfect for camping, road trips, or any vacation.”






Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 302 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5