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#104455 05/30/03 06:17 PM
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Father Steve: There was more on my link than male with a round face and is missing most of his nose -- scroll down to about the middle, right before the words "extant portraits."

But yeah, maybe the original quote meant more the guy's attitude than his appearance.


#104456 05/30/03 08:09 PM
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Okay, to quote what websafe is talking about:

"Ancient sources, both written and visual, provide a consistent view of Socrates’ physical form. His appearance was often compared to that of a Silenos, with regard to his stocky, broad-shouldered body (Plat. Symp. 215a ff.; Xen. Symp. 5.7), thick neck (Cic. De Fato ch. 5), protruding belly (Xen. Symp. 2.19), baldness (Sidon. Apoll. Epist. 9.9.14; Lucian, Dialog. mortuorem 20, Menippi et Aeaci 417), prominent eyeballs (Xen. Symp. 5.7), broad nose with wide nostrils and large mouth with thick lips (Xen. Symp. 5.7)."

I do agree that in this case, 'Socratic' refers more to the guy's facial expression/attitude ("frowning on a younger world,") than his actual features.

That le Carré used facial definition as a means to convey the person's attitude, using this very specific adjective otherwise limited to qualify philosophy and not physical description, seemed intriguing to me.


#104457 05/30/03 08:10 PM
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scroll down to about the middle, right before the words "extant portraits."


I did, I did. Most interesting.

PS: Too bad about his nose.

Padre


#104458 05/31/03 08:43 PM
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...a wise-looking man.

Jackie - What the ***** is that supposed to mean???

The first "*" in that group of five actually® is an asterisk.


#104459 06/01/03 06:28 PM
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"...a framed photograph that hung centre stage on the back wall, showing a Socratic, bespectacled gentleman in rounded collars and black jacket, frowning on a younger world."

John le Carre knows he is writing a spy thriller which will become a blockbuster movie so he has left the details of his "Socratic" portrait to the casting director or prop department, as the case may be.

Few writers have the opportunity to write so self-consciously for readers and viewers at the same time. [Perhaps he also visualized Pierce Brosnan in the lead when he wrote the story.]

#104460 06/02/03 08:48 AM
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John le Carre knows he is writing a spy thriller
And at the time, writers of such literature were busily fighting for respectability. One ploy was to sprinkle the text with more or less enigmatic "classical" references.


#104461 06/02/03 10:35 AM
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Poor old John le Carre. He had a niche which he did really well - cold war spy scenarios - and which I reread again and again, still stunned by the attention to detail and the word pictures he could build up of the situation. A Small Town in Germany is still, I think, the best, although of course the Smiley books were absolutely brilliant.

But now he's floundering around looking for a new genre. None of his post cold war novels have really grabbed me. The Little Drummer Girl came and went, quality-wise, and The Tailor of Panama was downright boring IMHO.

Another author of that ilk, and who has had his most famous book filmed, is Martin Cruz Smith. The Renko trilogy (which has, of course, become a quadlogy) were absolutely brilliant, a Soviet-era policeman stumbling through life in an amazingly believable welter of competence, incompetence, blind luck and sheer bloodymindedness. Smith is another author who doesn't do so well outside of his normal milieu; Gypsy in Amber was laboured by comparison with Gorky Park or Red Square. Red Square would film well, although I think they'd have to alter Polar Star quite considerably to make it "fly" as a film.

Sorry. Rambling rather than working. Software testing is NOT fun ...


#104462 06/02/03 10:38 AM
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Poor old John le Carre

Does he still write them, his own se'f?


#104463 06/02/03 11:17 AM
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Yes, unless (a) he's died (possible, (b) I didn't hear about it (likely) or (c) he's stopped writing books which I believe would be dependent on (a).

I don't think anyone could ape his style anyway. I've tried and failed, since I admire his approach so much. You have to think the way he does ...

And BTW, "The Constant Gardener" was pretty good, in direct contradiction to what I posted above.

I don't think le Carre has ever written a book with the screen play in the back of his mind.


#104464 06/02/03 01:00 PM
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I just asked cause so many of these thangs are franchised these days. A writer gets so popular that demand outstrips supply and Bonzo's yer uncle. If the quality's been slipping that might be what's happening.


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