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No anna, it was dear queen isabela (of spain) who introduced coffee to europe.. she gave up drinking wine as an offering, (as catholics are want to do, when making request of god) and instead, began to drink coffee. (it worked as a substitute, since in a goblet, it didn't look that much differnt than wine... and she did not want to banish wine from court.(wine production was an important source of income.. and she didn't want to harm native industry) so she drank coffee, and her court drank wine.. she eventually got her wish, and the moors were driven from spain, but by then, she had grown to like coffee, and drank it.
so it was a court drink of Spain starting in the 1490's or so.. and later the spain royalty brought it with them when they were there royal house of italy...
(but i don't think it was common in 1425...)
So you might remember her as the queen who financed Columbus, but i think she should be remembered for introducing coffee!
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old hand
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old hand
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From the World Book Encyclopaedia:
Before its use as a beverage 700 years ago, coffee was used as a food, then a wine, and then a medicine. Coffee moved from Arabia to Turkey during the 1500's, and to Italy in the early 1600's. Coffee houses sprang up throughout Europe in the 1600's, and people met there for serious discussions. Coffee probably came to America in the 1660's. Coffee growing was introduced in Brazil in the 1700's.This agrees with the following page: http://www.koffeekorner.com/koffeehistory.htm They both agree with AnnaS that this matchless ambrosia found its way to Europe through Italy (ti amo Italia!)
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Whitman, one quibble springs to mind: "physician and courtesan" an interesting combination, they were more progressive back then than I would have thought. Or did you mean courtier?
Well, Zed, that was a paste from that site, so whoever wrote-up that data chose courtesan.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Nice one, Pfranz, if you ignore the fact that coffee didn't even hit Europe (Italy, at that) until some 200 years later.  Pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick Somebody's rubbing off on you, Betsy ...
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rubbing off
Lessee, at 300,000 kilometers per second, umm, 60x60x24x365.25, 31,557,600 seconds per year times 200. Umm, that's one sweet bugger all honking big nit, Pfranz. You gone need a copule more "pick"s in there if gone wanna get all of it.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Sorry Faldo, just short of time. Glad you have the time to keep up the good work, though.
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That Habsburg-nosed despot may have had her own supply boat of coffee, Helen, but as ensuing posts pointed out, she had no immediate effect on its currency in Europe. sjm's timeline link is very good!
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yeah, but.. coffee first starts getting imported to italy just about the same time as the medici's have an influx of their spanish cousins...
the spanish court might well have had an old existing network, left over from the moors.. it is when spanish royality moves to italy, that italians start importing coffee from the arab world...
i know my source for the information is a bit sketchy--i read it in a biography of Queen Isabela, (a catholic press book, a gift from my parents) i know catholic historians painted a world in which the decisions of catholics monarchs were good.. (it hard a hard time explaining queen isabela's treatment of the jews..) but i don't see any reason for them to lie about coffee.. (the whole subject was handled from the point of how could the queen give up wine, (because protocal demanded that if she passed on wine, everyone dining in the same hall would also have to pass.. the same sort of protocal still exist today with the english court) and not have a negitive impact.. her solution was she had a priviate pitch, and it contained coffee, and everyone else had pitchers that contained wine..and no one was the wiser.. so she was not only pious, but modest in her piety!
the book made mention that coffee was an arab drink, one of the things of value that the moor had gotten in trade.. but mostly it focused on how spiritual she was, how kind, how she sacrificed, but did not make her court suffer.( well they had to find something good to say about her, they had trouble explaining away the treatment of jews.. and the inquisition! (but that they credited /blamed on over zealot priests.)
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old hand
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old hand
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I think the Spanish source is less likely as much for reasons of geography as anything else. Turkey is a stone's throw from Venice, a city that always looked East, even nicking its church from the Kremlin. An east-west flow of coffee seems to make much more sense to me, and to every other resource I have been able to Google on it. Given that its origin was on the East Coast of Africa, the Arabia-Turkey-Italy route would have been much easier than one that required it to cross the Sahara to be brought into Spain. The remarkable lack of dissent among the online reference sources, seems not insignificant either. I just can't see Spain having any legitimate claim to this one.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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the name "condom" becomes popularized; named after a 17th Century English physician and courtesan credited with the invention
- and then we go to -
ˇCafé Olé! Nice one, Pfranz [aka Capfka], if you ignore the fact that coffee didn't even hit Europe (Italy, at that) until some 200 years later
- which starts a coffee thread.
So, what is the connection between coffee and codoms, anyway ... apart from the fact that they both begin with "co".
Are we just trying to change the topic?
Just asking.
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