Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#75157 07/05/02 07:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
V
vika Offline OP
member
OP Offline
member
V
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
Language

This is what I am mainly interested in. As one would expect, the language of Americans, or to be more precise, of people living in New -York, is not always clear. Like in our country, the intelligence speaks plainly, intelligibly, figuratively. Like in our country, less educated speak indistinctly. [indistinguishable] Once I giggled, when in the underground were quarrelling [quarrels] two Afro-American [aft] moms, [Mona] their weight was roughly 200 kilos [kiloton] (height about 165 cm [coach] and age no more than 25). Their shout was difficult to bear, but it was only possible to understand (percentage): f*** [Faber] 50%, bitch 25%, shut up 25%. Everything else was some syncretic act of will, inseparable into phrases, words or sounds. The performance had been going on during 5 minutes and when one of the moms [Mona] had left and the other had stayed on the train, both have been very satisfied.


Journalists on television speak diversely too. It is very pleasant to listen to some analysts, despite the intricate phrases that are used sometimes. It is more difficult to understand comedians more as they use plenty of idioms [idiosyncrasies] that force the American audience to cry from laughing, I sit like an idiot thinking what was so funny It is amazingly delightful to listen to the BBC [be] news from Britain: a fine English, no wordplays, [words] no additional ?r? [Rabat] Now and then, when you listen to some American announcers, you can hardly set apart separate words under a thick layer of hanging "r". [Rabat] For example, the word "perhaps" can be pronounced as ?pRaps?. [prate] Nevertheless, I feel that all I understand everybody around better and better. The habit, probably.

Usual people speak in a different manner A driver of the underground train never announce the name of a stop Atlantic Avenue He says approximately ' tlAnic Avn. Afro-Americans are the main part of the personnel of the underground, they do not stress ?R? [Rabat] but "A", pronounced like in ?apple? and under very strong accent while the rest of the word is chewed up and lost. Manhattan clerks irrespective of the color of their skin have a specific New York accent. It is a slightly lisping pronunciation with soft L "and" R [Rabat] I understand them although I can not speak like this. I think I will learn how to do it.








You can imagine the manner of speech of the emigrants from former USSR. [usual] Besides children have learned at school a "teenage" English which is clear only to them. At present I have an impression that 50% of teenage speech consists of two phrases: A?roonou [arose] "and" Shjarap It means ?I don't know? and ?shut up" The rest of it are interjections, exclamations and giggles. But this is exactly the situation in Belarus - parents do not understand the language of their teenage children.

In general concerning the language of Russian emigrants speaking with Americans and the tendencies noticed by me. American simpletons [simplex] (there are enough of them even in US) say ?I don't know? as A'ronnou. [a] Our simpletons [simplex] enthusiastically accept it as real American pronunciation. They watch o [O'Brien] TV [twain] only Russian programs, therefore they do not hear normal speech. The same occurs with ?twenty?, which the same way turns into ?twoni?. [twos] Recent Russian (and not only Russian) emigrants sorry with Russian ?R?, [Rabat] and father as ?phasae , sister - systeR, brother - brathaeR. Besides our emigrants have developed an idiotic Russian where Russian grammar plus input , declination and conjugation of English language are used. For example: On whom are you applying? (To apply to submit the application, say, for work)


#75158 07/05/02 07:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
your bio says you are living in Minsk, but you talk about New York as if it were the present..
Have you lived here? or are all you impressions formed from TV, and movies?

and tell us more about your work as biologist.. Bean has provide us a rich selection of words from her studies of oceanography..

there is some much being done to day with molecular biology-- we are hungry for the words you encounter there.


#75159 07/05/02 08:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
M
old hand
Offline
old hand
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
Very interesting thread, Vika!

Don't feel you're alone in sometimes not being able to understand what's going on around you....! I have had that in my own country (as you point out, Belorussian parents sometimes can't understand their teenagers, etc.), and especially in the type of situation you mention: on the subway, or on some form of public transit, listening for your station stop and wondering what the hell the conductor is saying....??!

I think this kind of thing happens in any crossover between languages. If any of our French Canucks are reading this (or should that be "French Canuck" - are there more than belM?!), they might get a giggle out of an experience I had in Montreal. Ah...Montreal. Such a lovely city. And I was there with mon amour (whom I fired after the weekend, for unrelated reasons - unrelated to the weekend, I mean!)....

We went to a restaurant for dinner, and the maitre d' asked me in French, "Fumer?" "Smoking?" I replied, "Non." Then he asked something like "Combien?" "For how many?" to which I replied, "Deux." "Two." And suddenly we were speaking English: he said, "Follow me, please." I said, "How did you know I'm an English-speaker?" He said, "It was the way you said, 'Two'." I asked, "Well, how should I have said it?" I still can't get over his reply: "It's 'der'," he said.

I guess he was confused by my beautiful accent....!

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

#75160 07/05/02 08:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
V
vika Offline OP
member
OP Offline
member
V
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
oops! coping - pasting it I forgot the introduction:

This is a part of my translation of a story by a recent emigrant. I think this might be interesting for all of you to read. All suggestions concerning grammar, style and word use are welcomed. [welled] For example, I know that "simpleton" is a bit old fashioned [ but the only synonym that comes to my mind
is "punter" [punting] I think I saw it in "The wasp factory" by Ian Banks, but my Collins dictionary gives the other meanings.
Remember I mean no offence ] to anybody -I am just translating


#75161 07/05/02 08:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161
V
vika Offline OP
member
OP Offline
member
V
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 161

#75162 07/05/02 09:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
Ah, it all comes clear! You're just looking for a hand with your translation, vika - a sounding Board.

Yes, you're certainly correct in thinking "simpleton" is not the right word. Many people would find it offensive, as it implies "dim-witted" or "slow", occasionally worse. Neither would you talk about a class (or social group) of simpletons.

I can't currently think of an adequate alternative, certainly not in a USn context which is what you want. But I can tell you that punter isn't the word you're looking for. It's a very British term, in this instance presented by a (bloody good) Scottish writer. Closest translation of "punter" would be "customer" - but it was first applied, I believe, to a bookmaker's customers.

Fisk




#75163 07/06/02 01:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
G
old hand
Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
Neither would you talk about a class (or social group)
of simpletons.


Oh, really? You do not know my friends!


#75164 07/06/02 12:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
W
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
plenty of idioms [idiosyncrasies] that force the American audience to cry from laughing, -- That cause - not force!
Usual people speak = Usually, people speak. Otherwise 'usual' refers to the people and does not mean a thing that happens more often than not which is what I think the writer was going for.

If you are trying to adopt an accent - go for the Boston accent. Much more refined and distinctive!


#75165 07/07/02 08:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
>Neither would you talk about a class (or social group)of simpletons.
Oh, really? You do not know my friends!


Ah, yes, Geoff - I should indeed have mentioned that it's perfectly acceptable to call true friends whatever the hell you like!


Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
M
old hand
Offline
old hand
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 833
This is what I am mainly interested in. As one would expect, the language of Americans, or to be more precise, of people living in New York, is not always clear. As in our country, intelligent people speak plainly, intelligibly, and sometimes figuratively. Also as in our country, those who are less educated speak less intelligibly and distinctly. It made me giggle, once, when I heard two Afro-American mothers quarelling on the subway. One was called Mona; both were overweight (each weighed roughly 200 kilos) for their height, which was about 165 cm, and they were young to be so heavy - no more than about 25 years old. It was difficult to bear their shouting, and it was only possible to make out certain words - by percentage, they used "f***" about 50% of the time, "bitch" 25%, and "shut up" 25%. Everything else was some syncretic act of will, inseparable into phrases, words or sounds. The performance went on for about 5 minutes, until the one called Mona left and the other stayed on the train. Both appeared to have been very satisfied with the conversation.

Journalists on television speak diversely too. It is very pleasant to listen to some analysts, despite the intricate phrases they sometimes use. It is more difficult to understand comedians, as they use plenty of idioms, slang and jargon, and their word play often has the American audience in tears of laughter. Meanwhile I sit like an idiot, wondering what was so funny? It is amazingly delightful to listen to the BBC news from Britain: it is delivered in fine English, with no word play. Now and then, when you listen to some American announcers, you can hardly set apart separate words under a thick layer of hanging "r". [Rabat] For example, the word "perhaps" can be pronounced as "pRaps." Nevertheless, I feel that the more I listen, the better I understand everybody around. It becomes a habit of learning how others speak, probably.

Usually different people speak in different manners. Subway conductors elide the station stop announcements, so that, for example, "Atlantic Avenue" becomes " 'tlAnic Avn." Afro-Americans form a majority among the personnel of the underground; they do not stress their r's, the "a" is pronounced like in "apple" with a very strong accent, and the rest of the word is chewed up and lost.
Manhattan clerks, irrespective of the color of their skin, have a specific New York accent. It is a slightly lisping pronunciation with a soft L and R. I understand them although I can not speak like this. I think I will learn how to do it.

You can imagine the manner of speech of the emigrants from former USSR. Besides this, children have learned at school a "teenage" English which is clear only to them. At present I have an impression that 50% of teenage speech consists of two phrases: "A'roonou" and "Shjarap," which mean, respectively, "I don't know" and "shut up." The rest of their conversation is made up of interjections, exclamations and giggles.
This is exactly the situation in Belarus as well - parents do not understand the language of their teenage children.

In general, concerning the language of Russian emigrants speaking with Americans and the tendencies I've noticed: less-educated Americans say, "I don't know" as "A'ronnou." The poorly-educated among our population enthusiastically accept this as "real" American pronunciation. They watch Conan O'Brien and others on TV, only programs that are broadcast in Russia, therefore they do not hear normal speech. The same occurs with "twenty," which becomes "twoni." Recent Russian (and other) can't do this sentence, sorry Vika, am not sure what you're trying to say? emigrants sorry with Russian ?R?, [Rabat] and father as ?phasae , sister - systeR, brother - brathaeR. Our emigrants have also developed an idiomatic Russian where Russian grammar is used with input, declination and conjugation from English. For example: On whom are you applying? (To apply to submit the application, say, for work)

****end edit****

for above noted in red, did you mean to say "idiotic" or is "idiomatic" more what you were after? I changed it but could have been mistaken as to your intent.

hope this helps!

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,328
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 703 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,539
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5