A chum of mine, a Linconlnshireman with a wry sense of humour, wished me a Happy Saint Sexburga's Day today. Never having heard of the old dear, I was quite certain that he was pulling me leg. But no. There was such a saint and today is her feast day.

http://www.britannia.com/bios/saints/sexburga.html

Whew--buncha strange names there, Father Steve! Though I was pleased to see the ref. to Kent, as I have a fondness for it. But--is the following use of the word 'translated' correct?
...during her rule, she translated her sister's body into an old Roman sarcophagus brought from nearby Grantchester.
Also--mayhap I'll do a bit of research on Grantchester. If it's the same one Rupert Brooke wrote about 1300 years later--wow.

is the following use of the word 'translated' correct?

Pretty much. Translate etymologically means to 'carry over; transfer'. In fact translatus is the perfect passive participle of transfero 'to carry over, convey, transplant'. If you read hagiographies, those saints' bones are always getting translated somewhere: like from the Holy Land to Europe.

oops but my reaction to sexburga-- was WOW, SEX and Burgers in one.. two of my favorite experiences together.. Mmmm, sex burgers....(dooling like Homer while at the same time leering salatiously...)

In physics, translate means to move from one place to another. In ecclesiology, translate means to move from one see to another, as in "the Bishop of Boston was translated to New Orleans." In hagiology, translate means to carry the bones of a deceased saint from one burial site to another.

WOW, SEX and Burgers in one..

You want fries with that?

Ok; thanks. So what are hagiographies and what is hagiology, please? Something to do with saints, I'll bet. Hagi...magi? Is there a relationship there?

hagio- = saint or holy
hagiocracy = government by the priesthood
hagiographer = someone who writes about saints
hagiolatry = the worship of saints
hagiologist = someone who studies saints
hagiophobia = fear of or aversion to saints or holy things
hagioscope = an opening in an interior church wall to afford a view of the high altar
hagiotherapy = medical treatment involving prayer, visits to shrines and/or contact with relics or holy objects

In ecclesiology, translate means to move from one see to another

Thanks, Padre. I'd forgotten about the diocesan meaning of translate.

hagiography

My favorite hagiographer, and a best seller during the middle ages, is Jacobus de Voragine of Genoa. He wrote the Golden Legend: full of saints and all things saintly. Bill Caxton edited an early English edition in the late 15 century. Should be available online. Yup:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/voragine/goldleg1.all.html

Not connected with 'hag' of course, although a hag might be unholy!

HAG:

NOUN: 1. An old woman considered ugly or frightful. 2a. A witch; a sorceress. b. Obsolete A female demon. 3. A hagfish.

ETYMOLOGY: Middle English hagge, perhaps short for Old English hægtesse, witch.

(from AHD)

Middle English hagge...

So, of course, the male of the species is the haggis.

That's offal!

Thank ewe.

Das ist gut, liebling.

Oh, ewe-all are so baa-ad.

I agree. I can't stomach it any longer.

Well, that's scotched that line of humour then.

I just looked this up in Gurunet:
hagio– or hagi–
pref.
1. Saint: hagiography.
2. Holy: hagioscope.
[Greek hagios, holy.]
I had a feeling it came from Greek.

Also:
ma·gus (mâ'gəs)
n., pl. ma·gi (mâ'jî').
1. A member of the Zoroastrian priestly caste of the Medes and Persians.
2. Magus In the New Testament, one of the wise men from the East, traditionally held to be three, who traveled to Bethlehem to pay homage to the infant Jesus.
3. A sorcerer; a magician.
[From Middle English magi, magi, from Latin magî, pl. of magus, sorcerer, magus, from Greek magos, from Old Persian maguð.]

Number 1 made me give an inward sigh: I guess all down through the ages, mankind has made sure that there was a distinction between the haves and the have-nots.

Anyway--I thought that was a really interesting def. of translate (thank you again). Is it only used for saints? That is, if I took a trip to Europe, would I have translated myself over there?

if I took a trip to Europe, would I have translated myself over there?

No. But you might need to be* translated.

Hagi(o)-

The Greek hagios 'holy, sanctified' only has cognates in the Indic branch: Skt yajati 'revered with prayer and offering/sacrifice'; Skt yajas 'veneration, adoration' and Gk hagos 'guilt, maculation, sacrifice' (both of which are neuter nouns). From PIE *jag- 'venerate religiously'.

Haggis

From ON höggva, related to haggle, hew, hay, etc.

From PIE kau- 'to hew, hoe; to beat, hit'.

http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE208.html

Not sure whence hag, other than the OE hægtesse.

Is it only used for saints? That is, if I took a trip to Europe, would I have translated myself over there?

I'm sure you can say it, though it's usually used of saints and bishops. Has a nice old fashioned sound to it, though it does sound permanent, not like you're coming back.

Yeah, well Jackie gave up on sainthood about eighteen months ago, if I remember correctly!

Nope. 'Bout 42...years.

'Bout 42...years.

Now, how could she give up sainthood thirteen years before she was born!?

Psst, Father Steve--42 years ago, I was 9.

I'd ask you how old you are, but I know that ladies never can tell ...

>Das ist gut, liebling

More alimentary humor: And I thought I was the vili-an here! Of course I'm the only one so far who has a visual pun in my post.

I'll put the next one in the appendix. To go a little lower, I'm certain it won't make a vas deferens to anyone.

ladies never can tell Gee, thank you SO much, CK...

would I have translated myself over there? I'm sure you can ... though it's usually used of saints and bishops.

I found it wryly interesting, given current events, that in chess Bishops can move only diagonally- or so I've been told.
When a player moves a Bishop is the Bishop being translated? Hmmmm ?

When a player moves a Bishop is the Bishop being translated?

They'd have to change sides wouldn't they? Also, the bishop was originally an elephant. Still is in Chinese chess (xiang qi): an interesting variant.

In the original, Shatranj, the elephant moved diagonally, but only two squares. It could jump, but not capture, an intervening piece. In Xiang Qi the elephant is also limited to the two square move but may not jump an intervening piece.

In the original, Shatranj, the elephant moved diagonally, but only two squares.

I thought the jury was still out on which chess was original? Not that I know. Anyway, Xiang Qi also has less pawns, cannons and mandarins, but no queen. The king and mandarins cannot leave the palace. There's also a river that runs across the board which some pieces cannot cross. Interesting game: I've only played it a couple of times. Watched it a bunch.

I suppose I should have included the line according to Board and Table Games from Many Civilizations by R. C. Bell. There was an earlier game, Shaturanga, which had four sides, each consisting of Rajah, an Elephant, a Horse, a Ship and four Pawns.

There was an earlier game, Shaturanga, which had four sides

Also called caturanga which means 'four limbs (i.e., armies)' in Sanskrit. Skt catur 'four' is related to our four, L quattuor, Gk tettares, Russian chetverka, &c. Skt angam is cognate with Gk aggos (pronounced angos) 'vessel, bucket, wine-bowl, shell; womb', Middle Irish aigen 'pan', English ankle.

Byline: or so says Pokorny ...

That caturanga is pronounced <chaturanga>, ¿qué no?

That caturanga is pronounced <chaturanga>, ¿qué no?

Yes, sorry about that. I'm used to the standard Devanagri transcription system. There's both an unaspirated {c} ~ /tS/ and an aspirated {ch} ~ /tS^h/ alveolar fricative. I've never been able to hear the difference, but then IANP (I ain't no pandit).

The connection of 'agios with the Sanskrit becomes more apparent if you know that in modern demotic Greek the word is pronounced "hayyos" (the gamma being soft, instead of hard as in ancient and Koine Greek). Hence, the name of the great church of Byzantium, now a mosque, 'Agia Sophia, is generally pronounced now as Hayya Sofia. The Greek church in East Baltimore, 'Agios Nikolaos, (St. Nicholas) is Hayyos Neekolouse.

There is a parallel softening of the letter 'g' in Old English, where it is often pronounced something like our 'y'. For instance, the OE "He segde" (he said) is pronounced "hay say-de"; hence the spelling became "sayde", "saide", "said" in succesive ages.

de·mot·ic (dĭ-mŏt'ĭk)
adj.
1. Of or relating to the common people; popular: demotic speech; demotic entertainments.
2. Of, relating to, or written in the simplified form of ancient Egyptian hieratic writing.
3. Demotic
Of or relating to a form of modern Greek based on colloquial use.
n.
Demotic Greek.

[Greek dçmotikos, from dçmotçs, a commoner, from dçmos, people.]
(from Gurunet)

Just found this last night, re-reading one of my old Mary Stewarts (Madam, Will You Talk?):
I chuckled through a bite of croissant, aware of a miraculous spring-time lift of the heart, a champagne-tingling of the blood: the nightmare had gone; this fresh sun of morning rose on a different world where the last gossamer rag of fear and uncertainty must shrink and vanish in the superfluity of light. I said: "I was--translated."

I see now that I missed the meaning completely, the first n times I read it.

Mary Stewart

I enjoyed the first three books in her Arthurian cycle, but I've not read any of her other books.

I've not read any of her other books. Somehow I doubt that many guys would: I hesitate to use the term romance novel because the writing is infinitely better, but they are all mysteries, in which the female main character winds up with a new love in her life. Oops, I take it back--just remembered she's written one book for children--A Walk in Wolf Wood, or something like that. I've not read that one. But she can make you see places, that's for sure. I'd bet she's been to Greece, and that she really loves the place: three of her mysteries take place there, and in each the character raves about the country, particularly the light.
Interesting, how times change. Her earlier works were post-WWII, and the characters smoke, and the female willingly subjects herself to the wishes of the male.
I enjoyed the Merlin series as well--definitely a different point of view.

Oh, yes; I was wondering earlier: I used the term 'main character'; is the word 'protagonist' appropriate only when you're talking about a play?

Protagonist works for any literary work.

Thank you, Miss Congeniality. (My apologies if you meant it seriously.)

Somehow I doubt that many guys would: I hesitate to use the term romance novel

I have always been fascinated by the attraction that lettered women friends of mine have for bad literature: e.g., King, Kuntz, or Harlequin Romances. I read one of the latter as an experiment once a couple of decades ago, and that was sufficient. Actually, nothing that a few explosions (in the printing plant) couldn't fix. [NB: cum grano humungissimo salis]

I used the term 'main character'; is the word 'protagonist' appropriate only when you're talking about a play?

Originally it was used in reference to drama, but now can be applied to other literary works. No doubt purists shall object.

Read five or six of her novels (besides the Arthurian ones) in college. Had a friend who lent them to me (she was into Mary Stewart, I was into her, what can I say?). Found the blend of romance and darker mystery quite intriguing. Moved on from there to Mary Renault's Alexander series. And then, for some reason, got into William Golding and forgot about the Marys. Maybe I should re-read one, just to see if the old magic lingers. (And just to put all this in context, particularly for Jheem, I was a voracious reader of the worst sort of romances when I was in school - Mills&Boon - and read, when I counted, over 70 of them between the ages of 13 and 14. I am surely destined for death everlasting.)

cheer

the sunshine warrior

Loved Mary Stewart [blowing kiss e]

In so many "pulp" genres there are some writers turning out good stories that happen to be romance or westerns or whatever and there are a lot of others all sharing the same three plots. I read 2 1/2 harlequins when I house sat a house full of them, not my style but I did like Mary Stewart and a few others.

Mary Stewart

isn't she in prison now?

I've read more than my nominal share of M&B romances. Time was when I'd read anything, including manuals. This propensity for reading manuals has since seen me drummed ignominiously out of the Corps of Software and All Things Computerish or Even Vaguely Technical Such As Video Recorders and VCRs Buffalo Lodge No. 172879187

Never met a candidate for the Bullmoose Party before !