Wordsmith.org
Posted By: Rosten Proposal for Resolution - 07/05/02 02:25 PM
An open letter to Anu Garg

Dear Anu,

I hope this proposal will resolve disagreements that are pending on the AWADtalk board.

Of your many AWAD subscribers, quite a few have registered with the board. Some registrants feel comfortable enough to post there regularly (but would prefer that I leave that board); others have, for whatever reason, not felt the existing board to be to their tastes.

I propose, at my expense, to set up and run a similar board, with identical software but with a more active "administrative role" (as discussed below). It will doubtless develop a different character, and both new and existing posters can feel free to post on either board or both, according to their preference. Your main AWAD site would inform its users of both boards, so that they can take their choice as they prefer.

Since you (and not I) know where to get that board-software, I'll need your cooperation to set up the second board. But with your background expertise in running this board, that will be quite easy for you.

I'll be glad to leave the existing board, as a number of people there wish, if we can agree upon and implement something along these lines.

This is only a discussion-proposal - but if this concept is acceptable, let me know at your earliest convenience so that we can work out the details, put my commitment in writing, and implement as soon as possible. Thank you.
Posted By: Rosten Proposal for Resolution - 07/05/02 02:28 PM
Tentative role of administrator(s) in new board:

1. Rules to be enforced: should be reasonably specific to minimize discretion (leaving less scope for criticism or pressure on the exercise of discretion). Tentative rule: the same as Wordwind proposed in her "moratorium on personal disagreements": posts can be critiqued (politely), but persons cannot.

2. Sanction for violations: should be mild (not so harsh that the administrator(s) will hesitate to apply it) and progressive. Tentative sanction: opportunity to retract; if no retraction, a one-day ban; length of ban increases by one day with each further offense.

Posted By: of troy Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/05/02 02:42 PM
am i alone in thinking that this proposal sound like blackmail? i'll go away if you contribute time and effort to make me do so..
no Keiva, no rotten one, no what ever your name is.. we can't be goaded, or threatened or cohersed.. don't you get it? paying off a blackmailer never works, because there is no honor...

your threats, made early this week, and that what "charges made" was, a threat, make it clear, why you might be a law school graduate, but you are no lawyer. you use the law-- you know just how far you can go, to threaten and to try to imtimadate, while skirting, and having 'deniablity'...

no matter what you say about being reasonable, it is clear you are liar, a bully and now a blackmailer.. gee, is it any wonder why you are so unwelcome?

Posted By: jmh Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/05/02 03:13 PM
I think that it would be easy enough for anyone to set up a new board. It isn't difficult or expensive. I don't see any reason for Anu to mention it on AWAD - whether it has been set up by me (which I might) or you. It is pretty easy to get your website listed by the search engines, then follow it up with a certain amount of marketing - it will sink or swim according to its own merits. I have no doubt that there are some people who might like such a place to discuss words. There are several others out there - we just happen to have landed in this place. I don't think that using AWAD as a crutch would be necessary or acceptable.

Edit: I understand that this message has been misunderstood as negative. It is not. It is entirely positive. I support the setting up of as many new boards, by as many people as wish to do it, as the market (=english speaking population with access to computers) will bear. I do not see the link to AWAD as being particularly helpful or necessary.
Posted By: wwh Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/05/02 10:05 PM
Rosten, aka Keiva sent me a veiled threat, suggesting I might regret
saying Rosten was unwelcome to post. Keiva: you are unwelcome by any name
to post in AWADtalk. You started a flamewar, and would not quit. You got banned
by Jackie, the most reasonable and fair person I can imagine. She had been your
friend and you hurt and humiliated her very painfully. You hinted to Wordsmith that
he might be liable for a libel suit. So he reinstated you. After threatening and at least
mildly humiliating him, you are now asking him to help you. What insolence.

Posted By: TEd Remington Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 12:44 AM
>I hope this proposal will resolve disagreements that are pending on the AWADtalk board.

Since the userid Keiva apparently cannot post here any more, which leads me to believe that userid has been banned, there is nothing for resolution except for your posting under yet another name. You may bring that resolution to fruition by your swift and permanent departure.

And it takes a considerable amount of nerve to ask for assistance from someone whom you have so shabbily treated.

>Your main AWAD site would inform its users of both boards, so that they can take their choice as they prefer.

So, as I understand it, you will extract a pound of flesh by forcing Anu Garg to advertise a competing web site on his AWAD site. You may not have considered the import of this, but Mr. Garg's site is commercial in that he has accepted advertising. How many advertisers are going to allow AWAD to publicize a site that would draw away customers, which customers are the basis for their making the advertising payments?

>I'll be glad to leave the existing board, as a number of people there wish, if we can agree upon and implement something along these lines.

A friendly coercion, er, I mean persuasion.

If I were Mr. Garg, I would not even respond to this idiotic and self-serving proposal. Mr. Garg has nothing to gain from this that he cannot achieve by simply banning Rosten, as has apparently happened to the Keiva persona.

And don't bother coming back to me and lying about the conditions under which the original ban of the Keiva userid took place. Your implication that you were allowed to come back with another userid (AphonicRants) was the most base thing you did to me personally.

The obvious contempt you exhibited towards me was not unnoticed, nor was it unreturned.

Having said this, I return to my prior stance of not posting until you are permanently gone from this board.

Posted By: inselpeter Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 01:52 PM
<<Your main AWAD site would inform its users of both boards, so that they can take their choice as they prefer.>>

F*ck off.

Posted By: belligerentyouth Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 02:38 PM
Keiva, mate, someone needs to put their foot up your crack to give that ass some soul.

Posted By: Rubrick Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 02:47 PM
I couldn't have put it better myself, BY and I will gladly carry out the deed. Size 12 steel-toe. No charge to you, Keiva. The pleasure is all mine.

Posted By: wwh Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 03:08 PM
Dear BY and Rubrick: Sticks and stones may break bones, but words will never bother Keiva.
The thing that I believe will work is to deprive him of pleasure in posting, by merely
recapitulating the unforgivable things he did, so newcomers will know about them.

I have suggested to him that it is unrealistic to expect Wordsmith to tell him how to set up
his own site after what he did to Wordsmith. And Wordsmith might justifiably be concerned
that Keiva would sue him if any directions given did not work.

A solution that ought to be more appropriate I have suggested to Keiva. To take the computer
courses he needs to set up his own site, either on Internet or in community college.
Or even correspondence courses. He would need to be able to troublehoot his site after he
had set it up.

Posted By: armor Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 04:16 PM
wwh I think it's terrible you were threatened. What did he say?

Posted By: wwh Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 04:32 PM
That I "would very much regret" continuing to post "unwelcome" after each one of his.

Posted By: Rubrick Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 04:37 PM
Sticks and stones may break bones, but words will never bother Keiva.

Dear Bill: There is a big difference between words and promises. Guess which mine were?

Posted By: of troy Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 04:44 PM
read for your self Armor..

http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=announcements&Number=75127

i suppose, some one could argue in a court of law that this is not a threat... but since being sued, is a drag , even if you win, and when the words are posted by someone who has practiced as an lawyer. .. the natural reaction is to think you are about to be sued.. of course, keiva will wiggle and giggle the words, and say nothing of the sort was said.. but cummilatively, what emerges is a picture of someone who is a liar, a bully and blackmailer.. and most unwelcome here.

Posted By: snoot Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 04:59 PM
>What did he say?

Sock it to me.

The Lone Haranguer
Posted By: ewein Post deleted by ewein - 07/06/02 05:21 PM
Posted By: Rubrick Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 05:24 PM
I did not see it as arrogant, blackmail, etc.

Then you must live in a world of your own.

And don't try to blame us for your husband's many short-comings. That's just shallow.

Posted By: of troy Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 05:34 PM
I propose, at my expense, to set up and run a similar board
that is what Keiva (aka..what ever) says.. he wants he board, with his rules, and to have Anu help him, and for Anu to provide links, before he Keiva leaves, (even thought he was banned)

What's the problem? Keiva finds more and more every time he posts, the cookies are updated, and he has read only status? so now suddenly he want his own board?

Good... and soon enough, the sock puppets will have read only status too..

this would be a healthy end to it
or Keiva could just leave.. that would be a healthy end.

though I had suggested the addition of an apology
Let me know when that happens... i expect pigs will fly, hell will freeze over and the end of the world will be nigh... I am sure the answer was, that he had nothing to apologies for, right?
Why the hell should Anu be interested in fostering Keiva's interest? especially after the crude and bullying way Keiva has treated Anu.

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 06:11 PM
Dear ewein:

You wrote, "I realized that it might be rejected--but by Anu, since it is his board."

If Keiva wanted a response from Anu, why didn't he send a PM to "wordsmith"? Why did he publish his intentions on the forum? A forum proposal would, by design, call forth public response. And those responses could be negative. That's the nature of the beast.

I cannot begin to number the times I have contacted Anu privately--at least four times, but, perhaps, more. When I addressed Anu publicly, however, I did so in the hope that there would be public response to support whatever I wrote.

I would think that, had Keiva addressed Anu privately first, then, had Anu given serious consideration to Keiva's proposal, that proposal could have been set forth for public discussion.

You see, by Keiva's publicly declaring his proposal, he, in effect, asked for public response.

And because Keiva's proposal has been made in a public forum, I must add expression of my belief that it appears to be a riduclous proposition for many of the reasons that have been made above. Keiva has caused too much time to be taken away from the purpose of the board to receive any kind of pay-off in setting up his own board.

Someone commented in some communication about all the troubles on the board that the world is very large--billions!--and that Keiva's setting up of a new board is a good idea. It may have been the writings of jmh--memory serves me poorly now.

But what a truth that is! Let Keiva examine successful boards. I would invite him to take a look at maestronet.com. That is a wonderful music discussion board. Let him ask his friends about other successful boards to examine. And then let him design his own word board in whatever way he can create a winner. I sincerely wish him well in creating something of value that will let him express his best qualities.

Best regards, as always,
Theresa

Posted By: tsuwm Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 06:16 PM
ewein states: I really don't get it.

this must mean that the "ayes" have it.



Posted By: Rubrick Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 06:36 PM
It seems logical to presume so, yes.

Posted By: ewein Post deleted by ewein - 07/06/02 07:01 PM
Posted By: Rubrick Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 07:06 PM
I smell a rat. A Keiva rat. Go away Keiva. You are not welcome to post here.

Keiva is using his wife's log-on to post his tripe again. Don't deny it because you can't fool me.

Posted By: inselpeter Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 07:41 PM
Keiva dissembles. By entitling his thread "Proposal for a Solution," he seeks not actually to legitimate what he says, but to lend it the *appearance* of legitimacy. Keiva’s language seems to refer to an arbitration in which he is engaged, either with wordsmith or the other members of this forum. This is "seeming" in its active sense; in the present context, it might almost be thought malicious. It is, in any event, performative speech and wildly imaginative.

There is no arbitration here, but rather, a series of one-sided threats to bring suit. The implied reference to a non-existent abitration is an attempt to create the illusion not only of the existence of such arbitration, but its pre-existence. That is, it is an effort to create the--false--impression that we have been engaged in engaged an arbitration all along.

There is method in this. Pretending to offer ‘a solution’ in the context of an arbitration, lends that ‘solution’ the appearance of fairness: an arbitration must strive for fairness and 'the solution' is offered as a part and in the spirit thereof.

But that is only half the method. Here is the underbelly. By pretending the context of a quasi-legal forum, Keiva offers his solution with a tacit reference to law and as though his complaints had been found to have merit. That is, his ‘solution’ contains a veiled reiteration of the same old threat.

Thus, the ‘solution’ thread is just another bullying tactic. It is designed to extract concessions, not on the basis of what is fair or proper, but on the basis of an imperial sense of entitlement.

Put simply, "I will leave if you do ‘x’ for me," is the sort of thing one is used to hear from the mouths of bullies.



Posted By: ewein Post deleted by ewein - 07/06/02 07:55 PM
Posted By: wwh Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/06/02 08:05 PM
I think it should be clear to all of us by now, Wordsmith does not wish to be
involved. Why should he? He has nothing to gain, no obligation to us, no need
to expose himself to the unpleasantness. To which we are adding more fuel.

Posted By: Rubrick Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/08/02 07:53 AM
Keiva is using his wife's log-on to post his tripe again.

No, Rubrick, 'tis me, Nancy. Read my post again. There are clues that it is I.


Really? Then have a look at the following line taken from your last post:

I thought posting this letter would prevent that.

Exactly what letter do you refer to? The one at the top of the page posted under the title 'Rosten'? You're right. It's either a blatant clue or else you really are just dense.

Posted By: modestgoddess Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/08/02 02:28 PM
I think it should be clear to all of us by now, Wordsmith does not wish to be involved. Why should he? He has nothing to gain, no obligation to us, no need to expose himself to the unpleasantness. To which we are adding more fuel.

Bill's right. This must be causing Anu so much pain - to see something that he so lovingly set up, for linguaphiles the world over to play in, be so filled with hatred and angst. I do agree with all the above posts about what Keiva/Rosten/whatever is up to, and I think he's wrong. But now I have to quote Slartibartfast, from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - I'd far rather be happy than right.

Don't know what it will take to be happy here....maybe just staying out of I&A? which I can't seem to do - some fun stuff goes on up here too.....Alas.

So sorry Anu, if you're reading this, for my part in its continuance. I will try to be more faithful to the spirit of the board from now on, a la WordWind.

Let us go in peace to love and serve the board.
Posted By: delorme Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/08/02 05:29 PM
Keiva here. How free you are to toss out charges, bill, knowing that any screen-name that disagrees with you will promptly be prevented from posting.

Exactly who was issuing threats, bill? You are the one who admitted that you were deliberately trying to "tramatize" me (this from a psychiatrist, no less), who repeatly called me "contemptible", and who PM'd me saying, "Expect no mercy." It's all of record.

Posted By: consuelo Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/09/02 02:07 AM
Keiva/delorme go jump off a short dock into a deep lake and don't forget to put on your cement overshoes. Please and thank you.

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/09/02 02:19 AM
Dear Consuelo,

I regret that you've made that last comment. Little Wordwind was almost asleep, and I read your comment out loud in an attempt to try to decipher it. I've never heard of shoes being fashioned from concrete.

Wordwind, who was almost out for the night, must have heard me reading, for she sprung up in her bed and shouted out:

AWAD Night--Live!!

I'll never get her down. Out of her mind, out of her head, out of control! They really don't pay me enough to stay around here.

And now she's blabbering something about, "The codes! They worked! They codes!"

What kind of a code is she blabbering about?

Bedlam regards,
WW's Nursie

Posted By: consuelo Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/09/02 02:25 AM
Ken says:
SHIT. the problem with this board is that it absolutely refuses to do anything about a problem that driving away members. would rather accept that loss than have the maturity to face a problem and deal with it.


So, Keiva/delorme, you who has everything saved to disc and counted, how many people have you run off this board since you made this statement? I'd say we are certainly facing the problem you are presenting here and are doing everything in our power to deal with it. Go away, you are not welcome here now or ever.

Posted By: wwh Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/09/02 12:30 PM
Let us hope ;ou are beating a dead horse's ass.

Posted By: consuelo Re: Proposal for Resolution - 07/10/02 12:13 AM
Or just giving it a swift kick to see if it's really dead or just sleeping

© Wordsmith.org