Dear Anu,
I have a proposition to make that could use some modification, but a proposition nonetheless.
There has been a lot of bad blood spilt here on this board that goes beyond expected arguments over language and insult one would find on a board about language.
Having been a member of this board for nine months now--and a member of a music board for over two years--I believe we have created here an environment in which truth has been flushed down the toilet.
What we need here is a means for cleaning house, and apparently having an administrator didn't work.
So, this is what I propose. Should a member regularly become embroiled in conflict to the point that harsh effects occur, such as at least 30 members refusing to post, could the group vote to rid the board of the conflicting presence? I cannot see how a member whose behavior has worked against peace, consistently and characteristically, should be allowed to retain posting rights. It seems that the person's name could come up for a vote, with a few reasonable safeguards in place, such as those who vote should have had some degree of an active life on the board, at least one month, so each would have had time to study past posts and have understanding of the board. Sock puppet votes should be disallowed, but I don't have the knowledge to know how you could go about ferreting them out. I'd be honest myself, and I would hope others would be, too.
Since adminstration didn't work due to circumstances we do not have full information about, perhaps a democratic spirit of voting would. I cannot imagine any group that shouldn't have the ability to rid itself of members who do not adhere to expected behavior--that is, rid itself of any member who habitually works against expected behavior. I do not believe this board should be conducted like a court of law. I believe in common sense. I believe we, who have posted and written here over time, have enough experience and intelligence to know when a problem--not just an occasional knee-jerk reaction--has become an impediment. In the words of the seer: We don't need no steenkin' rules! But we do need means to say, "Enough is enough--out, out, dark spot!"
Thank you for listening, if you're listening,
Theresa, aka. Wordwind, OrionsBelt, Archedbrow and Scorpionstings, there, I 'fessed them all.
I object. The board should not be ruled by what 30 or so posters would or would not do.
you'd rather it be ruled by keiva?
you'd rather a liar?
a stalker?
a flamer?
Why?
Actually i don't want to rule the board, and i don't think most of the many who used to post here, want to either. but nor do we want to be ruled.
Each of us are our own ruler. We decide whether we read, post or even log on.
I suggest an 'ignore' feature. Found on other boards, one can identify a poster and choose to 'ignore' them - meaning that their postings will not appear on their screens.
Respectfully,
Chem
Do not trouble deaf heaven with your bootless cries.
Deprive Keiva of any enjoyment of his ill-gotten gains.
Each of us are our own ruler. We decide whether we read, post or even log on.
My sentiments, exactly.
How many of us are willing to let Keiva enjoy profits of foul deed?
I for one will never do so. His pride is the only place where we can wound him.
Keiva: you are not welcome on AWADtalk.
His pride is the only place where we can wound him.
Is this about wounding then? There are already enough wounding raging around the world. Do we have to add to it? Is this the behavior we are imparting to our young?
For me, it is extremely hard. I just can't summon the inner strength required to ignore the presence of someone who has accused me of being antisemitic. I just can't find the peace of mind needed to turn the other cheek to someone who has sworn that he would "nuke the board", and followed through on that threat. I just can't seem to avoid the way that my stomach turns whenever I see a post from the person that browbeat and maltreated our friend Jackie the way that he did. And now, I shudder when I think of his creepy behavior evidenced by the presence of his acolyte at Wordapalooza last weekend (from which he was disinvited in no uncertain terms) and his subsequent meeting with her in Lansing on Sunday to get his debriefing.
I, for one, no longer want to share this space with him. I've tried to stay away my self, but I feel cheated in so doing. I have been here nearly from the outset, but that was just a matter of chance. I am probably second only to wwh in number of posts, but that is just a matter of longevity. What would you have me do?!
There are already enough wounding raging around the world. Do we have to add to it?
As "pride" is (if not the only reason) one of the major reasons for ALL of the wounding (not my word of choice, BTW) going on around in the world (most usually under the guise of *nationalism or *religion of some sort), I prefer to approach the causes than band-aid the effects, even if it means taking a "personal step backwards". In this case, actively ignoring or repetitively putting up a "talk-to-the-hand" phrase is doing just that.
tsuwm - Thank you for detailing the insults, personal abuse and actions which even I understand as attacks. As you know I'm more than happy to take a good *ribbing, (how else could I dish out my own personal brand of humor), but insinuating through a twisted and completely erroneous conclusion that I would be antisemitic (i.e. "with people who to a greater or lesser degree share his sentiments.") has made me be silent, which I consider a "personal step backwards". I'm glad there are others that continue to speak and make heard their own unique words.
I'll continue to seek out humor, but...
Re: people should ignore what they don't want to read
Oh, yes, just the way Keiva ignored things? He ignores our messages to go away, but again and again he starts new thread cataloging how he is being picked on...
he has been doing if for months, and months, not the few weeks we have been doing it. we should ignore the sock puppets? like aphonicrants? but he gets to complain about the equalizer? we should ignore his threats? his stalking? his using Angel and others to harm this board? is that what we should ignore?
You see two sides? what two sides? a person who was banned and used threats to get him self restored? a person who lies, who uses people?
Cry about death threats? what death threats? being told Drop dead is not a death threat!.. and didn't you fail to mention that some who had inside information, wrote you, to reasure you?
What did you do? do you attempt to contact anyone and warn us that your husband was in Michigan? Are there 2 sides to that? No there is only your side.
If keiva was so afraid of belligerant youth, what the hell was he doing following him to michigan?
you excuse all of his behavior, all of your behavior.. you cry how terrible it is here and for all of this ugliness to stop.. you and your husband are the ugliness.
how many times is it now, that said you are not going to post here any more?
what was it that Mary McCarthy said? "every word from her is a lie... even and & the." i could look up the exact quote.. but the what's difference? the gist is there.
you remind me of the children who killed there parents, and plead for the mercy of the court, because they are orphans.
No, no mercy. go away you are not wanted here.
tsuwm
You have always been so refined in every move you make on this board that I have silently admired you and think of you as a model.
Even now when you stated your grievances, you did it in a very courtly way. It helps me look at one more side of the issue without being blinded by rudeness and unnecessary harshness.
I am thankful for your exemplary behavior throughout your ordeal.
I hope I have not given the impression that I am taking sides. All through these days my only objective is to keep the board decent, free of annoyances like hurtful words. In other words, as Geoff said to keep it"convivial".
I consider you a stalwart of AWAD and your leaving will deprive the board of another touchstone.
Excuse me tswum, but with all due respect:
You will please note that I did not initiate or participate in the "bombshell thread" in which bombshells were lobbed at the board. Nor did I respond in kind to the "nuking" posts of such folks as equalizer. If one wishes to check back, one can see who has "nuked" [your term] and who has been temperate.
And I do thing you are rather unfair to think me "creepy" to meet with a friend.
I will not discuss your comments regarding Jackie, even to refute them, for I see no good in a gentleman discussng any negative aspects of a sweet lady's behavior.
tsuwm, continuing just a bit further:
I think WordWind had an exellent idea in her "two week moratorium on personal disagreement" thread. Her initiating post has now been deleted, but it so echos the thoughtful depths of spirt one often sees in your posts that I have little doubt you remember it.
Keiva: You will never be welcome on AWADtalk.
Keiva: You are decidedly unwelcome to post on AWADtalk.
>I suggest an 'ignore' feature. Found on other boards, one can identify a poster and choose to 'ignore' them - meaning that their postings will not appear on their screens.
Unfortunately, Chemeng, the Board software doesn't have such a feature to turn on. But I'm friendly with some very clever gnomes... Patience, patience...
<< I have always said that people should ignore what they don't want to read or respond to. >>
Please relate this to your husband.
I've got to tell you, with the blue laws back in New York after the Giulliani era, yours is the only burlesque show in town.
Please go away. Go away. Go.
<<Helen, I knew Ken was not a threat so I didn't contact the group. Perhaps I should have, though. I didn't even think about it.>>
The inconsistency of your first and third sentences suggests a lack of good faith and a clawing self-righteousness
Excuse me tswum, but with all due respect:
You will please note that I did not initiate or participate in the "bombshell thread" in which bombshells were lobbed at the board. Nor did I respond in kind to the "nuking" posts of such folks as equalizer. If one wishes to check back, one can see who has "nuked" [your term] and who has been temperate.
you show me (nor anyone else) the slightest bit of respect with this absurd denial.
exhibit A:
February 21, 2002
Ken says:
4) nuke [your term] is pending.
Connie says:
I ask you please not to.
Ken says:
5) that's warning.
This is not offered to you for discussion. I will do whatever seems to me right.
exhibit B: (the Bombshell)
Jackie
Thu May 30 22:47:00 2002
The person who signed on to this board with the name Keiva, and who became AphonicRants, et. al., threatened to file a lawsuit against at least me, and possibly our beloved Anu. He has now been unbanned. Anu felt there was no choice. I shall miss you all.
-joe (just the facts) friday
As edited 4:47 PM: tsuwm, thought is not a crime. Unless you can talk about what I did, I make no apology for what I thought of but did not do.
1. Re your "Exhibit A": At most you merely show that I was (justifiably) angry but was laudably able to restrain myself. You mention no posts I actually made anywhere near as nasty, numerous or continuous as others against me (with which you express not the slightest distaste) (Anything approaching equalizer or of-troy, for example; numerous earlier examples also available.)
.....As opposed to my thought-not-acted-upon, what do you think of those who actually acted, hitting the board with admitted {quote} "bombshell" {end-quote} posts? similar to what they'd posted in prior months Which constitutes "nuking the board"?
2. Re your "Exhibit B": You quote Jackie.
.....Jackie has retracted the statement you quote, and said something quite different.¹
.....It is somewhat unfair of you to quote her former statement and ignore her corrections. Once again, you are critiquing not my act, but merely a thought I decided not to act upon.
----------
¹not Keiva threatened to file a lawsuit;
but Ken did not actually say to me that he WOULD sue; ... he said he would rather not take that route
and he has not told me that he WOULD sue ... he had considered the prospect
The Devil can quote Scripture to his purpose.
Keiva: You are here only by having wrung
a shameful reprieve from Wordsmith.
Well, dr. bill, at least you're talking about actions, not mere thoughts.
Not actions you know of, and not ones you describe accurately, but at least actions.
how funny! and here I was, making a nexus between exhibit A (your nuke) and exhibit B (Jackie's bombshell).
-joe (go away, Keiva) friday
Yes, tsuwm, but the difference is that that former was a thought not posted or acted upon; and the latter was posted onto the public board and promptly joined by many, including you.¹
Only the latter, not the former, affected the board.
----------------
¹Immediate edit: Joined so promptly as to suggest pre-planned concerted action.
Keiva: You are tiresome as well as very much unwelcome.
Keiva, I really doubt that I have to spell this out to you; but for the benefit of all (and truly, this is just the observation of this observer): the "nuke" which was so thoughtfully delivered, to be described as a "bombshell" by Jackie (which she has not retracted) was your "action" whatever form it may have taken, which resulted in your unwelcome return and Jackie's departure. as to what you had in mind when you made your original "nuke" threat to Consuelo, this will suffice in my mind as it has wiped out Jackie's AWAD personna as well as driven others permanently away.
-joe (just go away, Keiva) friday
Because of computer blowing up, and no practical way of salvaging hard disk, I cannot produce copies
of messages I had from Keiva, but he made it quite clear he was going to do something to AWADtalk
that would make me very unhappy. He sure did. And all to try to escape a well deserved banning,
which his oversized ego could not accept.
tsuwm, the problems is, while this is taking place in a cyberworld, most of use live and think in the realworld, but keiva, he lives in keiva world. in keivaworld, his thread about spamming, is helpful, (not hurtful)
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=announcements&Number=64077and in keiva world, its ok for him to harrang us for "driving away newcomers", but his driving way both old timers and newcomers is helpful.
http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?br>Cat=&Board=wordplay&Number=52618&page=0in keivaworld, keiva is some sort of demigod, and he gets to make up the rules, because he is so sure he knows better.
remember when he set them forth?
http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?br>Cat=&Board=wordplay&Number=52618in keiva world, disagreement with keiva is wrong, insulting and hurtful, (and everything that drop from his is some sort of blessing..)
when keiva insisted that Daniel Pearl was "a hero" -- there wasn't going to be any dissagrement permitted..
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?at=&Board=announcements&Number=58549In keiva world, no one was supposed to notice his rude anagram of AnnaStrophic's on line name.. because in keivaworld, he is brilliant and we are all supposed to be so blinded by his light, that we should be able to see nothing but him...
In keivaworld, its normal to cower in few when someone says drop dead, and at the same time, its also normal when cowering in fear to go 300 miles to be closer to the person who allegedly threatened you..
in keiva world keiva is alway right, and everyone else is wrong.. and as soon as you make a point, and 'prove' something... why well start the arguement all over again, and again and again..
in keiva world he is normal, to do this repeatedly for months on end.
in keiva world, it normal to encourage you wife to disavow you, lie, and prentend to be someone else..
in keiva world, we are all crazy, or worse, and keiva is right..
In keiva world, we are supposed to ignore his nasty posts, but he gets to complain, harang and harrass us forever about every little thing that bothers him, and until we grovel before him, until we kowtow before the mighty keiva, there will be no peace...
in keivaworld, keiva has isn't a human, keiva is a demi god... do you know the first commandment?
there is but one god, and keiva, you ain't him.
he is no mensch, he is less than a man.. he is a thing, for he has no soul, no goodness, he is consumed with himself. he demands, he commands, he harangs.. he uses the words "respect" but he give none.
keiva has cause months of problems and strife. he has "helpfully' started flame wars.. he has used and continues to use sock puppets.. and to lie, and claim he doesn't. because in keivaworld, its OK.
Keiva uses the same tired tricks over and over again...
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?at=&Board=announcements&Number=73423and we'll say it again and again.. I guess that is one thing i have learned from keiva.. difference is, i tell the truth...
you'll note he never commented on my post,
after he claimed not to use sock puppets, that AphonicRants was created, and was posting long befor the Keiva name was banned, that he was lying.. nor did offer any apologies, ever, for his actions...
I have made inprudent posts, and i have apologied. AnnaStrophic has apologied, Maverick, Rubrick, many in many months, have backed off.. but not keiva.. he thinks he is a law unto himself.
go away keiva. drop dead. rot in hell. you are not wanted here.
tswum, it to me a while to understand your 104-word sentence, but the meat of it is this:
the "nuke" .... was your "action" whatever form it may have taken, which resulted in your unwelcome return (emphasis added)
That is, you don't know what I did, but nonetheless you conclude that it must be wrongful -- and justify screaming -- because the result was unwelcome to you.
Keiva, go away. You are not welcome here. How many times have you read this in the last few weeks? Would not a normal human retreat from such a show of dislike and distaste? Why would anyone want to remain in a recreational area in which this is the sentiment? I could maybe understand if this was your job or your family you feel you are fighting for. This is not your home. You do not need this place to survive Do yourself and everyone else a favor. Unplug your computer. Forget that any of this ever existed. Play violent video games or something, but please go away and leave us alone. You are not welcome here. Don't you get it? If you don't, I would suggest that Nancy have you commited for your sake and that of your family.
I would suggest that Nancy have you commited
I would suggest that you retract that remark.
I will not retract it. It is my sincere belief that you need help. If you are not willing or able to do so for your own sake, your spouse has that legal right. That, sir, is a fact.
I don't want to be accused of practising medicine since I am no longer licensed,
but I can assure all members that Keiva is not committable. That used to be
one of my principal functions. He just has a tremendously overinflated ego,
and that is not grounds for commitment. And if he went into therapy, it
would not be long before he was treating the therapist. Maybe even curing him.
wwh, you write, as only you can write:
And if he went into therapy, it
would not be long before he was treating the therapist. Maybe even curing him.
...and that's one of the funniest things written today up here in I&A! We all do need a good laugh here, ya' know?
Ogden Nash (of course
); last stanza only. The protagonist was his young daughter.
Isabel met a troublesome doctor,
He punched and he poked till he really shocked her.
The doctor’s talk was of coughs and chills
And the doctor’s satchel bulged with pills.
The doctor said unto Isabel,
Swallow this, it will make you well.
Isabel, Isabel, didn’t worry,
Isabel didn’t scream or scurry.
She took those pills from the pill concocter,
And Isabel calmly cured the doctor.
Dear Keiva: Regrettably the pill has not yet been discovered that will cure you.
dr. bill said Dear Keiva: Regrettably the pill has not yet been discovered that will cure you.
dr. bill, you appear to have mis-titled your last post.
It seems that you were rejecting humor, not injecting it.
Keiva: there is nothing to laugh at in your having caused so many members
so many annoyances. Just to sooth your monumental ego. You were willing
to destroy the board, if you could not dominate it.
You were willing to destroy the board, if you could not dominate it.
no, sir, you are incorrect.
It is of-troy and friends (such as equalizer) who are willing and acting to destroy the board, if they could not dominate it. It is she who announces her departure, and then returns with flametorch in hand.
I, in contrast, have been confining myself to word posts, except where responding to personal attacks made on me.
[yawn] Oh, please. [inspecting my newly manicured fingernails-e] Bloody hell, man, can't you just go away and leave us in peace? Take up a new hobby already. Can someone please throw my purple seahorse in the pool? Thank you, that's a dear.
It is of-troy and friends!
Yup, that's right! i have friends! Real ones! not just a brow beaten spouse and hand full of sock puppets..
why don't you go play with yourself, oops, i mean AphonicRants. jeepers, what's a fellow got to do to have someone play with him? make them up?
how about angel? is she still your friend? or does she now realize, you don't really care about her or her feelings at all? all you wanted to do was use her.
I give up. he counts my words but understands none of them.
(it's very simple, really: driving off Jackie (with threats or implied threats) constituted an attack against my friend and the board -- he knew exactly what he was doing.)
And boasted of it in advance.
<<You mention no posts I actually made anywhere near as nasty, numerous or continuous as others against me>>
You pit yourself against many and complain when many suggest you're an ass--or, rather, clarify the suggestion you yourself make with your persistent, obnoxious, pompous, boring, ludicrous, viscious, arrogant, selfish use other people's resources. You are a guest here, you ungentlemanly pretense, and the very worst kind of guest--one who threatens to sue the host when the host, having fed him his supper, then insists he takes his leave. You are shameless. Get lost.
yes, he did boast of it didn't he? and modess godess was kind enought to present his words, he is the anti humantarian, who would purify the board by destroying it. he is his own enemy. such self loathing.. any thing he enjoys, he tries to destroy. sad, sick thing.