Everybody OK? wow? Angel?
We didn't feel it here in southern upstate NY.

6:50 or so AM? I was sure i felt it! it last about 30 seconds.. i put on the radio, and didn't hear any news stories..

Oh, yeah, i felt it.

What earthquake ???

I remember the last earthquake i felt in NY.. it was also a saturday, (Oct 1987 or so) a friend Ben had just gotten married, and when he & wife came back from honeymoon, we teased both-- (You, know, Michele, he's not that good--it was an earthquake.., or the opposite vein, Wow, he is so good the earth moved for me, too..)

is was mild enough here in Long Island.-- but we are many miles away from epicenter.

Here's a link to the story:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J2D411AB

I guess this explains what woke me this morning! No damage, hubby didn't even stir. But the cat and I felt something.

Here, down state, it felt as if the kids (imaginary kids) where shaking the bed.. milder shaking than a "massage" bed in a cheap motel. but i could hear things gently rattling.. windows.

i have been to both Japan, and CA, and felt stronger quakes, that still were not serious.

though the news article hinted about NY's underlying granite -- I don't know all the geology of NYS, but the whole NE of US is pretty solid rock..some ignatous, (basalt) mostly granite. (metamorphic, right?) Manhattan is schist, but i think more of NY is gniess. (but i don't really know enough about them to be able to speak of characteristics. the schist overlies the gneiss, and it is overlayed by marble..

most of NY marble is (especially in souther tier) has been eroded away-- but there is still plenty of the marble in vermont. but my computer is too slow to pull up most of the GIS stuff-

Good thing it didn't reach 3.5 down here in South Jersey...that's when it's calculated the artificial island of mud that the Hope Creek Nuclear Plant is built on (a genius of engineering ) collapses into Delaware Bay and presto!...meltdown.

The Only WO'N!

Headline: Hopeless Creek Nuclear Plant Collapses into the Unaware Bay...

(imaginary kids) where shaking the bed.. milder shaking than a "massage" bed in a cheap motel - of troy

Hopeless Creek Nuclear Plant Collapses into the Unaware Bay... -wordwind

That's it! You two girls must be my guest-of-honors at my next Hurricane Party. No matter if the hurricane is a dud, your curlicue way with the english language will insure the party a huge success.

- - - -

you sure you want a northern gal like me at one of your parties?

actually, i don't much like hurricanes.. they go on too long..
Friday night, heading to railway station, a squall line pasted throu Manhattan, and we were treated to a
gustornado--a 70-80 mile hour gust of wind that swirls into a funnel, but doesn't ever form into a full tornado.. The bus stopped, the rider all gasped, and it was gone.. garbage cans were knocked over, and the bus shook (more violently than the earthquake shoke my bed!) but not for as long..
By the time i got home, i was treated to peach pink skys.. the storms were fast moving, and heading east..that fun.. hurricanes are hours.. (unless by a hurrican party, you mean a party where you server hurricanes..they are wicked!

We felt the quake all the way into Montréal. The quake didn't last long but the sound echoed for a minute or so. I'm told it has to do with the type of rock on which the province rests. It is quite interesting to feel the vibrations and here the grumbling.

One thing is odd, all the birds stopped chirping. At this time of year, what with all the spring mating (now, get your minds outta the gutters, I’m talking about the birds) our yard is a cacophony of different chirps, squeaks and squawks, starting 4:00 in the morning – enough to wake you sometimes.

My chicken-dog Max sproinged into the bed beside me. At 85 lbs, that’s a lot of dog to be sproinging. *Sigh*, not your fierce protector of family my Max. Oh well, what he lacks in courage he makes up in friendliness.

Ah, don't go spoiling the kids' fun, Max. Let them play.

It was 6:40 in the morning on a work day Cap. Trust me, not a lotta playing going on. Snoring more like.

Milum wrote:

That's it! You two girls must be my guest-of-honors at my next Hurricane Party. No matter if the hurricane is a dud, your curlicue way with the english language will insure the party a huge success.

Honestly, I don't think earthquakes and hurricanes are funny at all--and I sure wouldn't go to a hurricane party though I've heard of people who do for some strange reason.

However, the aftereffects of either Hurricane Hazel or Hurricane Diane back in the mid-50s when I was a child left an enormous white oak tree from our yard completely fallen across the street in front of our house. The neighborhood kids got on the big branches and road them like famous horses from the West--we were the children of Cisco, Roy, Gene, Hopalong and gang. What a huge disappointment when the road crew came and removed that white oak that we kids believed Providence had provided for our entertainment.

Happy Trails to you,
WildWest

Max says: 3.5??!! Please tell me you're kidding!

Max, we gotta find a word for this. Perhaps earthburp?

3.5 wouldn't even be noticed here

The Richter Scale is an objective measure of the amount of energy released by the quake. How that energy is perceived is largely dependent on the underlying geology of an area. If you pour that 3.5 into a swamp ain' nobody gone even realize there was a quake; dump it into some good solid elastic rock and you'll feel it. We typically don't feel these quakes in Ithaca because we are a local swamp area in a sea of hard rock, but, as helen pointed out, the NE in general is a great hunk of good earthquake transmitter and relatively small quakes get felt at distances that would make a Californian shake his head in utter disbelief.

Manhattan is schist,
NY is gniess.
The schist overlies the gneiss

Helen, I didn't realize you were a punster!

Hey Max, stales...look what I found...And you say Australia is earthquake prone?

(2) >>>>> CLIPS FROM AUSTRALIAN WEB SITE: >>>>>

Australia wants a repository, too:

From:
http://www.uic.com.au/nip55.htm

Low-level Waste Repository for Australia, Nuclear Issues Briefing Paper # 55, March 2000

Where it comes from:
"While Australia has no nuclear power producing electricity, it does have well-developed usage of radioisotopes in medicine and industry. Many of these isotopes are produced in the research reactor at Lucas Heights, near Sydney."

"When the final precise site in the Woomera area of South Australia is decided, the disposal area of the repository will be about 100 metres square, with long trenches up to 20 metres deep. It will be set in a 2.25 square kilometre buffer zone. If the category S wastes are co-located, their secure building with concrete vaults would comfortably fit in the same area."

Uranium Information Centre Ltd
A.C.N. 005 503 828
GPO Box 1649N, Melbourne 3001, Australia
phone (03) 9629 7744
fax (03) 9629 7207
E-mail : uic@mpx.com.au

<<<<< END OF CLIPS FROM AUSTRALIAN WEB SITE <<<<<

More information about Australia's search for a repository for its nuclear waste:
http://ens.lycos.com/ens/aug2000/2000L-08-18-10.html


The Only WO'N!

This from an article The Nuclear Phoenixhttp://www.emagazine.com/november-december_2001/1101feat2.html:

The Bush Administration and nuclear industry are proposing that the current liability limit of $9 billion be extended for another 10 years. The initial $560 million cap rose to, in recent years, $9 billion. Still, notes Alvarez, this is all just a fraction of what the NRC itself has concluded would be the financial consequences of a nuclear plant accident. Those figures are contained in a 1982 report prepared for the NRC by the DOE’s Sandia National Laboratories entitled Calculation of Reactor Accident Consequences for U.S. Nuclear Power Plants. It calculates (in 1980s dollars) costs as a result of a nuclear plant disaster as high as $314 billion at the Indian Point 3 nuclear plant north of New York City and $174 billion for the Millstone 3 nuclear plant in Connecticut. The report projects “early fatalities” with figures as high as 100,000 dead for the Salem 1 nuclear plant in New Jersey and 72,000 dead for the Peach Bottom 2 nuclear plant in Pennsylvania.

(and this is calculated according to local census figures, not with the annual summertime influx of millions of tourists to the region -- note: Hope Creek and Salem are the same complex)

This from a recent Garden State EnviroNet article http://www.gsenet.org/library/11gsn/2001/gs10108a.htm

Dave Lochbaum, a nuclear-safety engineer at the Union of Concerned
Scientists in Washington, D.C., said radiation from a single ruptured
tube most likely would be caught before it reached the river. The
bigger threat is the theory that one rupture could lead to multiple
broken steam tubes, Lochbaum said.

"Emergency systems are only sized to deal with one tube failure at a
time," he said.

Any radiation leak would more likely escape the plant in the form of
steam through Salem's rooftop vents, he said.

Water for the steam generators comes from wells, while the plant's
cooling water comes from the Delaware. Neither water supply is
supposed to be exposed to radioactivity before being discharged to the
river.

Another concern implicit in the whistleblower's letter, Lochbaum
said, is that he felt compelled to take his concerns to the NRC.

"Plant workers are the first line of defense," said Lochbaum, a
former PSE&G employee. "If they are reluctant to go to plant
management with their safety concerns, that can be a problem."

A second letter from the whistleblower draws attention to Salem's
"snubbers," giant shock absorbers designed to prevent generator tubes
from rupturing in an earthquake. The snubbers were improperly
maintained and could fail in a seismic event, he charged.




The Only WO'N!

3.5!

BTW, Max...I'm searching for documentation of this (that's how I came across the other nuclear data)...thought I had it in my own files my can't seem to find it. But I presented this information, along with the problem of hurricane flooding, concerning the Salem Nuclear Complex for discussion at one of the freeholder nemeetings, quoting from a documented study (governmental, scientifc, or both). The problem is, the Artifical Island which holds one of the reactors is perched directly over an old fault line, so is even more susceptible to seismic shocks there. The rest of the compex sits over the faultline as well, but, of course, the vulnerability of that artifical island is of the utmost concern. A temblor of much greater force would be required to severely damage the plants built ashore. We actually had a 2.7 tremor on that faultline just three or four years ago, at the height of the campaign to close the plants down before deregulation (which we lost, try to fight PSE&G). Since there was so much focus on the issue then anyway, those 8 seismic points weren't very amusing at the time...I mean, no one wants to be proven right about this.

The Only WO'N!

the flat brown lump to my west

Nicely said. [grin -e]

<<<3.5??!! Please tell me you're kidding! 3.5 wouldn't even be noticed here>><

- shades of "we used to have a handful of gravel for breakfast in t' morning"??
jj

>"we used to have a handful of gravel for breakfast in t' morning"

Oh did you live in the same cardboard box ???

The last quake here was in January, some time after mid-night. It felt like quick thud, and I went to the roof to see if the Empire State Building was still standing.

This one went on longer, a strong rhytmic rocking, which, until I heard the news, I attributed it to the amorous couple next door.

>and I went to the roof to see if the Empire State Building was still standing.

Can't imagine why, you've must have been watching too many movies

>I attributed it to the amorous couple next door

I can see why you spend so much time out at the movies

RE: I attributed it to the amorous couple next door

How sad.. the earthquake only lasted 30 seconds..

I have heard of wham, bam, thank you ma'am's, but 30 seconds!, has got to be some kind of record!

We DO have earthquakes in Oz - and occassionally they are quite destructive. Perhaps the most famous being Newcastle (NSW) in the late 80's and Meckering (WA) in the 60's. On the whole - especially when compared to international events - they are quite benign.

The points in favour of a nuclear waste disposal facility here is not only the relative stability of the continent (in structural terms), but the minimal population density and sheer isolation of 95% of the continent. Assuming the stuff has to be stored SOMEWHERE, a repository such as that proposed in central Australia would just about have to be the best place in the world - especially considering the political and cultural stabilities of this place.

Irrespective of the facts, the hysteria of the debate ensures a sensible outcome is most unlikely - rest assured the most popular/vote catching outcome will win the day - irrespective of whatever merits the initial proposal may have.

BTW, a proposal by a commercial group for a facility way east of Kalgoorlie was loudly rejected a year or so ago.

stales

I have heard of wham, bam, thank you ma'am's, but 30 seconds!

Helen, sounds like you're confirming Max's observation that in New York, "your quakes are ... laughably small."

[edit: How apt that this thread appears, in the index, adjacent to one titled "I'm a member".]

I only may to feel sorry for you.

well the NY earthquake was a 5.5-- not a biggy i suppose for trembling islands, but big enough.

i was 300 miles from epicenter and the trembling was not scary, but partly because i have experienced earthquakes before.

i think a big (5.5 3 miles away, not 300)earthquake might be very different.