Wordsmith.org
Posted By: Jazzoctopus The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/20/01 11:05 PM
As I mentioned earlier in the High Priestess thread, I have been corresponding with Anu a bit lately, with the initial help of Jackie, of course. The purpose of our talking is my proposal to give wordsmith.org a fresh, new look. It has remained the same since it's inception in 1994 and Anu agreed that some aesthetic improvements are in order. I volunteered to create a new design for our beloved site. I had an interesting and pleasing conversation with Anu on the phone last evening (he's a very nice person) and we discussed what we would like to see with a new design and re-organization and what factors needed to be considered, such as older, text-only browsers and voice software for blind users.

Anu seems to be pleased with what I have designed so far, but we would like your input because we know that this board is such a great source of ideas. My design is located at http://home.att.net/~lovelandjazz/wordsmith. I haven't been able to check it in all browsers and possible computer set-ups. I'd like your feedback on the design and I'll most likely be making a couple other possible designs for you to consider.

Thanks

P.S. Note that the only links on the design that go to other pages are the "text-only" and "more/AWAD" links.
Posted By: Max Quordlepleen - 06/20/01 11:20 PM


Posted By: tsuwm Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/20/01 11:34 PM
everything looks good as far as IE, Netscape and even aol (ha!) are concerned; and switching to text version works fine. are you planning to do anything with the available space on the side -- i.e., with frames or anything like that?

Posted By: Jackie Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 12:59 AM
Wow, it looks cool! I LOVE it that Anu's picture is there!
Two--well, one--suggestion, and a personal preference.
Rather than just the basic definition of the W.A.D., I think it would be better to have everything that you see when you click on More visible immediately. I have a feeling that many people will skip this step, and thus also a great deal of enrichment. Words are so much more than their definitions; etymologies can be very interesting; and,
I love the quotes and X-bonuses.

My personal preference is about the font of the headings.
I like my letters better if they are solid, not hollow with odd colors here and there, and I especially like them to be straight, and to sit upon a level line. It makes me vaguely uneasy if they look "wobbly". (I know--that's weird, but I can't help it.)

Posted By: rodward Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 10:19 AM
Jazzo, I can only echo the congratulations of the others. It looks clean and sharp. You are brave to share it with us.

Any design like this is going to be a compromise between having all the information and having too much clutter. I agree with Jackie that you should at least try having the etymology on the front page.

The open font and alignment didn't worry me that much, it fits in with the general look and feel, but you may have to try other options if too many people agree with Jackie.

Be very careful about cluttering up the current "spare" space with navigator frames as Tswum may have been suggesting, or was it just a question? You may lose the clean feel.

But great stuff.

Rod

Posted By: Flatlander Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 11:21 AM
Jazz,

I think the new design is great, and rodward was right when he said that you were brave to share it with us. I doubt anyone would offer anything other than constructive criticism, but changing something we have all grown so attached to is likely to meet with some resistance.

As far as my own comments, I'd have to agree with Jackie that the more information about the WAD on the "front page" the better, and I am also not a fan of outline fonts (but to each his own, esthetically-speaking). Also, maybe you should add to the list of links in the right-hand box a link to the FAQs and, based on the amount of coverage Anu is getting lately, a link to Information for the Press.

I love the clean, clear style -- good work, and congratulations! Finally, and of particular importance to those of us who spend the majority of our time here at AWADtalk, can we see a redesign for the pink navigation banner that appears at the top of every page?

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 11:34 AM
Thanks for the comments so far. Tsuwm, I'm guessing that you're using a screen setting that is higher than 800x600. Currently, it looks best in that setting because that's what I use personally. I'm considering using a background image that will have a different color at the 800 pixel mark so higher density browsers can see something other than a field of one solid color.

Jackie, I originally had all of the information on the front page, but that looked a little cluttered and made the middle column much longer than the others. This is actually one less step to get to the full details of a word because currently you have to click AWAD then Today's Word to get to it. This would only require clicking "more" or "AWAD" to get the full thing.

As for the title at the top, I'm fully open to suggestions there. I thought the two colors looked interesting, but I'm totally open to changes.

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 11:38 AM
can we see a redesign for the pink navigation banner that appears at the top of every page?

If Anu will let me I was planning on continuing the style through to AWADtalk. I'm not sure about the tan/orange background, but some of the colors and the main logo would have to change for uniformity.

Posted By: wwh Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 12:07 PM
I particularly like having all the available features on the first page. I first learned about AWAD from the Smithsonian magazine article.But it was a couple weeks before I scrolled down far enough to notice the AWADtalk button. A lot of people may never have noticed it. Perhaps the AWADtalk button ought to be made to stand out more.

Posted By: Rapunzel Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 12:20 PM
Nice, Jazzo. I love the color scheme.
I like the Word a Day the way it is-- while having all of the information immediately available would be nice, I think it might look too cluttered.
I have to agree with Jackie on one thing; it somehow makes me slightly uneasy to be able to see the box borders through the A Word a Day, AWADtalk, Chat and News headings. Dunno why.

Posted By: Marianna Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 01:12 PM
Jazz, I think your design is really really good. Well done you, and thank you for volunteering to give AWAD a facelift!

My only comment is a personal preference for more contrast between text colour and background colour. I find it easier to read the text in the lighter-coloured boxes on the front page than the information on the W.A.D that appears when you click "more", which is directly set on the darker tan background. Again, this is only a preference...

I think the font on the page title looks pretty good, however I do feel a bit like Jackie and Rapunzel about the section headings where you can see the outline of the box behind them... maybe that's also a bit harder on the eyes?

Thanks again for your time and dedication, Jazz!

Marianna

Posted By: RhubarbCommando Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 01:19 PM
I agree with previous comments about the clean, uncluttered appearance of your design, Jazzo. 10/10 for that. I have personal reservations about the colour choices, which I find a little too dull, perhaps? But they are not offensive, and I would not be put off by them, were it the first time I had come to the site.
Overall, I am in favour of what you've done - and thank you for putting so much thought and effort into a project that will benefit us all.

Posted By: maverick Re: The ever-revolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 01:57 PM
Great work, Jazzo. And the sooner the 'pretty in pink' is retired, the better! I would tend to agree about outline fonts and keeping high contrast. Well done for an excellent initiative, carried out with skill.

Posted By: wow Re: Design change for wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 02:24 PM
My initial reaction was to rear up and think :
"Somebody wants to mess with AWAD! No!"

Then I took a look ... and I am converted!

Lovely, JazzO! I like the golden background .. probably because it's my understanding that yellow is equated with the mind in several Eastern cultures... and Western halos are golden too!
As to the fonts : the san serif is very clean and readable but I have to throw in with having them a bit heavier or in a color other than the light blue, perhaps a bit darker blue against the gold color? I know Dr. Bill has difficulty reading so perhaps you could check with him on readability?
All in all a super-dooper effort. Much applause and a bit of jealousy for all the talent displayed.
Do keep us informed, JazzO. Hurrah for you and Anu too.

Posted By: musick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 02:53 PM
Everything looks fine!

I would be especially sensitive to download times, and although this means less for a page such as the home page (or index.html) where you want as much as possible available, the current simplicity, load order, as well as the main body of text being as one full page (as each thread loads in flat view) should be maintained (you might not be able to change this anyway). The less fluff the better, and if this site brings any kind of advertisement/banners you will/can count me out for good.

I like the grey background to read black letters from, and to add any strong red (like your tan) or blue hues will effect the tone of the board... it's the same reason people are "complaining" about the pink that is there... any other color theorists here with a brighter light to shed???

... and if you change the grey how are we going to get into the gutter?

Posted By: Bobyoungbalt Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 02:59 PM
Add me to the list of well-wishers. Great job! I use AOL, which has problems as everyone knows, but no problem getting it to load and it appears to be OK in all respects. I like the colors and the fonts. My only wish is that the small fonts where most of the info and links appear might be bigger -- there seems to be room for the same amount of text in their respective boxes if a slightly larger font were used. My problem is that I wear contact lenses with reading glasses (bifocal reading glasses, of all things, for short and medium range reading, and text on the computer screen falls somewhere in between). Also, I have allergies which, in spite of medications, cause allergic conjunctivitis, so that my eyes water and ooze, causing the contacts to fail to seat properly a good bit of the time, which distorts vision, making it very difficult to read small fonts. (Sorry to inflict all that on you -- this should warn you about what to expect when you get old.) I expect a good many older people will have problems with fonts that small.

Posted By: Hyla Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 03:39 PM
It looks great! Thanks for the initiative to start it, and kudos on the skill and taste required to execute it so well. When I first read that you had offered to remodel AWAD, I was taken aback - it seemed like sacrilege. Now I've seen what you've done, and I thank you for it.

Great work, Jazzo.

Posted By: wow Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 07:20 PM
Mercy! A new and improved AWAD ... and new titles too?

From the comments, looks like you have struck gold!

Posted By: of troy Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 07:52 PM
well i didn't go and check the sourse code for colors..

but if you can, you might want to open the page side by side in EI and netscape-- not all browsers handle color the same-- before you comment on colors-- you must recognize the colors you see, might not be the colors i see.. (there can be a pretty dramitic difference just from AOL/EI/Netscape, not to mention MAC versions.. )

(though all colors that use only the hex value of 0,3,6,9, C and F are supposed to behave the same on all browsers)--

The colors can still be effected by how you have set up your monitor-- some apps, like photo shop-- can change how "colors/contrast" look and value-- as can the age of your monitor..(and i am guessing no one here is still just using 16 colors.. or even 256..)

all this is rather technical (but i bet jazzo, and many other here know of what i speak)
, --ps- jazzo, i asked my son, who is a sometimes visitor to the AWAD word list, but never to AWAD talk, and who uses a text only browser-- to look at it.. and see how it looks in linx.

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 09:18 PM
you might want to open the page side by side in EI and netscape

I did this and did notice a fairly obvious color difference, at least on my computer. The Netscape background looked almost pink compared to the intended color. I've fixed that by making the background an image rather than just a brower interpreted color. The background image also changes colors at the 800 pixel mark so those with humongous monitors won't just see a huge blank space.

I also centered everything, this again to make it look better with different monitor sizes.

Byb, as for font sizes, unless I were to use complicated scripting that isn't recognized by very many browsers, I'm unable to do much with them. Currently, HTML only allows for about 6 different font sizes and if I were to go one size up the text would be cumbersomely large. I see the text as the same size as that on this board, except for the news, which I intentionally made smaller to fit better.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 09:44 PM
>I've fixed that by making the background an image rather than just a brower interpreted color.

the tradeoff there, of course, is that the page takes a little longer to load.

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 10:00 PM
the tradeoff there, of course, is that the page takes a little longer to load.

Only about 3 seconds for 56k though. The dimensions of the image are 1200x1.

Posted By: nancyk Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/21/01 11:37 PM
Congratulations and thank you, Jazz, for taking the initiative to develop the look of the Board. I've felt from the start that the appearance lagged well behind the liveliness of the content; BUT, since I have neither the technical ability nor the creativity to do anything about it, I didn't feel I had the right to complain! You've done a super job and I can't wait for the inauguration of the full-scale new look (as long as you lose the pink and the current AWAD script font).

Posted By: rodward Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 01:59 PM
the tradeoff with images is that the page takes a little longer to load

And the background will be cached in your local machine for the session, and if you are a regular visitor, probably for longer. If you are a frequent web user and have lots of spare disk space, try increasing the cache size in your browzer (US spelling - I'm learning), this can improve download performance. In IE its Tools/Internet Options and then the Settings for Temporary Files in the middle of the General Page. In Netscape, its Edit/Preferences/Advanced/Cache.

Rod


Posted By: musick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 03:15 PM
First, let me rephrase the statement... "one should be sensitive to download times" (as an T-IT(don't ask) manager, I have no problem there). However, in combination with these download times are internal processing speed times, and I feel for any PC user still running a pentium 2 under 350mhz. Anyone who hasn't bought a new PC in two years may have one. These machines are fine for most basic office/desktop work, there are a lot out there, and will "exponentialy" add to download time.

ofTroy - I am familiar with all the technical references you give, but my point has nothing to do with those... my statement about color theory has to do with the psycological effects of red and blue as a background with long term use... something that is apparently, and going to be (although I hope not) ignored.

...and I believe tsuwm's point should be regarded as ultimately important. Although Rodward may have a point for those of you who like to use your cache which is designed to speed up the display process, not the "download process", it'll do nothing for those of us who don't use a cache (for specific network traffic reasons) and will "hurt" the slower internal processers regardless of cache use. There are also alot of people that don't have a lot of disk space to allot to cache space, and a large cache space on a slower computer can actually® be slower than direct to display downloads.

I, personally, don't like the current color choices (I prefer a blue undertone (a type of grey intead of a type of tan) but everything else looks wonderful).

(EDIT - I would assume 256 colors, no more!)
Posted By: of troy Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 05:00 PM
Musick, I to am T-IT-- more T than IT-- but with enough IT bragging rights.. (well at least i am this week... i have been known to change careers every once in a while)

Right from the first time (in netscape) the backrground looked ochre to me... and i thought the blue was an nice contrast.. (in fact, from an art/color value point of view, blue/orange is a perfect contrast, but the ochre is a very good choice-- especially since color values are handled differently, and created differently on a monitor (RGB as primary colors, not RBY)

I didn't comment on size, since i have my monitor resolution fairly small-- (all the more room for my desk top-- and i hide my task bar-- since it takes up to much space)

a quick glance of the sourse code shows several of the colors values use 7, E, and other values that will not be the same in every browser..
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
a color tutorial
Color in computers is controlled several ways-- in HTML (Hyper Text Markup Language)and other ML's (XML, etc.)
color is expressed with 2 place numbers.. only the numbers are in Hex(adecimal) so each XX can express 256 values, not 99-- (one value is 00--no color, so some say 255 colors..) so 6 digits can display 255 shades of Red, 255 shades of Green, and 255 shades of blue.--and then when you start "mixing colors" (say red and blue for a violet or purple= FF00FF). its easy to see how you can get millions of colors..

of these millions of colors, 255 colors are supposed to look the same everywhere.. these colors only use certain values..
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11,12, 13, 14, 15 (in decemial)
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, F (in Hex)

the 255 "universal colors only use the number values in bold.

so plain, intense red =FF0000 (Max out the red value (FF) and no green (00), and no blue (00)
and Green = 00FF00, and Blue= 0000FF.. -- this is sometimes referred to as RRGGBB--
and in unix--these RGB values were expressed in octal --though i am told that has changed..

If in any windows program, you go to a color window (say for fort in word-) and go to the advanced button. you see a rainbow like spectrum.. as you select a color... the window will also give you the RGB values.. (you might have even seen them there, and never knew what you were looking at..Now you have an idea!)

what makes everything more complicated is hue and intensity.. and other factors that will effect that color.

Posted By: maverick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 05:06 PM
Thanks for that walkthough, OT - good to know we're in safe hands with a pair of T-ITs to lead us

Posted By: of troy Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 05:33 PM
Mav-- half the people at AWAD know enough to run rings around me.. the other half are often fine at using a computer-- but don't have a clue as to how it works.. i am somewhere in the middle..

I am not very good at developement (haven't done a lot) but-- i know enough that the techno geeks can talk to me.. and i can ask intelligent questions.. (and not ask impossible tasks).. and i am very good at explaining what i do know, so that other can understand it..

but any number of people here have contributed a wealth of technical information.
we might consider a side line of teaching web/computer basics.. a complete How To list... (how do i get ñ, how do i get a , how do i..)
and then some.. (oh no, jazzo, i think i am suggesting that the FAQ be updated too...and i am backing off before i find that i have "vollunteered" to do it.)

Posted By: Wordsmith Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 05:35 PM
Thanks to Jazzoctopus for the lead and everyone else for helpful suggestions regarding re-design of Wordsmith.Org.

While discussion of colors and fonts and the like is useful, let's think outside the box. What features would be useful to have here? "Share this page with a friend"? AvantGo, WML, Palm versions of the pages? What else?

What other content would be good to have here? Access to a dictionary or a thesaurus?

Is there a site on the Internet that you especially like and find easy to navigate? Feel free to share it here.

We may not be able to put in all the feature and changes suggested here in the end, but let's open the discussion.

And to answer a question, AWADtalk will follow the color scheme of the rest of the site. And yes, it won't be pink.

Posted By: maverick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 05:45 PM
Thanks Anu, not only for the constant attention you must be giving this project, but also for the energy to keep the thinking fresh.

Off the cuff, I agree that Mail this Page and dictionary access would be useful features, and perhaps a more prominent links section to word-orient(at)ed sites like Quinion and so on.

I am sure the more considered responses will be worth listening to.

Posted By: Flatlander Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 05:47 PM
First I must say how great it is to see the bold red handle of wordsmith appear on the board, and how happy I am to respond.

As far as access to a dictionary goes, I imagine most of us here have our own list of favorite reference sites, but perhaps other users would appreciate a reasonably short list of suggested dictionary/thesaurus/etymology/etc. sites. One that leaps to mind is the one at Max's great AWADabilia site, so maybe a link there is all that is needed (or we could see if Max wouldn't mind wordsmith.org stealing the list so it would fit the new design scheme). I'd hate to see the site endorse (officially or just by association) one particular reference site (unless it provides some much-needed operating expenses, I suppose!)

Good luck with the new look!

Posted By: Sparteye Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 05:47 PM
In reply to:

Thanks for that walkthough, OT - good to know we're in safe hands with a pair of T-ITs to lead us


Maverick, I have a feeling that you'd follow a good pair of T-ITs anywhere. [giggle emoticon]

Posted By: Sparteye Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 05:53 PM
Oh gosh, if we're fantasizing here: links to dictionaries and thesauri (?) would be terrific. And how about a spell-checker? An informal chat room?

Thank you so much for this site.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 06:43 PM
a while back I had an exchange with some other logophiliac(?) webmasters regarding a 'web ring' for verbivores (and I mentioned this in an aside to jazzo). I got a warm response from kevin johnson (of Spizzerinctum) and mild interest from Mike Quinion. what do you folks think of this idea?

Posted By: of troy Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 06:58 PM
a second to tsuwm's suggestion of links to other word sites (but a pop up window-- warning them they are leaving AWAD-- (good sense too, since new google type browsers look for how well linked up you are..)

and what i would like is

1) a copy of sent mail not just recieved
2) a utility for forwarding my mail (both sent and recieved) to my (home/business) email address..

a third thing would be some sort of Add functions (limited--) to Aenegma.. so that YART would be added.. and maybe even that other word...

some more mark up would be nice..
so that we could make horizontal bars (rules/lines) instead of doing this..
* * * * * * *...or ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ or what ever
graphics, and up loading files, well that get scary.. there are lots of viruses.. but maybe some more emoticons? and color..

I had fun with Mavericks "blank subject" line.. and enjoy color.. (even though its a pain to do all the mark up) how about some secret options -- for use to find, if we can.. easter eggs if you will...

Posted By: musick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 10:18 PM
- Sent mail copies? I second the motion.

- Expanded emoticon list? Suggestions anyone?... Confused? Melancholy? Drunk?

- Spell Checker? I like the "random" spell checker we have (can we make it more so?). It has forced me to look up those words I am not confident spelling, and in doing so is has become a tool which heals the wound, not band-aid over the cut. A flavor of the east in a overly western meal.

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/22/01 11:56 PM
Ok, y'all, I have a second design possibility for your perusal now. It's at http://home.att.net/~lovelandjazz/wordsmith/layout2.jpg. It's just a giant image, because I haven't written it out in code yet, so it may take a bit to load and none of the links work. (You can't click on it.)

It has all the same information, just organized in a different manner. This version would only require six images to load as opposed to ten.

Posted By: Avy Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 12:51 AM
> I like the "random" spell checker we have (can we make it more so?). It has forced me to look up those words I am not confident spelling, and in doing so is has become a tool which heals the wound, not band-aid over the cut. A flavor of the east in a overly western meal.

I agree. Don't get rid of Aenigma, please! Which site can boast of an almost-human spell checker?
--
Jazz.. I like the new design very much .. it does not draw attention to itself.
Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 11:15 AM
Jazz, I want to add my thanks for your wonderful initiative. I think I prefer your second version, though I'll go with the consensus.

Two requests:

a. Please keep it as simple and fast-loading as possible, for us modem-challenged ones.

2. Please get rid of the signature line option when you get around to architecting® the 'Edit Profile' section.

Posted By: maverick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 11:57 AM
architecting®

and please give us an alternative to the {tongue} that is much more explicitly and graphically a BIG FAT RASPBERRY

Posted By: wow Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 03:40 PM
The latest version is lovely. Such talent!

Please get rid of the signature line option when you get around to architecting® the 'Edit Profile' section.

YES! For compulsive readers (like moi) it is crazy-making.

Keep Enigma! Sometimes it has me laughing out loud with its suggestions and unintentional double entendres. And what would we kvetch about without it?

Could the "Helpful Hints For Newcomers" thread be taken out of its present location and incorporated somehow as a click-link?

How you'd make it possible to save sent-and-received PMs is way beyond me. At present I just copy then paste in a folder located in My Documents. Otherwise I just send them off with a cheerful "Bon Voyage!"

I may be alone in this -- Could you make a first name required in the Personal Profile? The rest left as is except as noted above re ID line.

Personal preference re Links to other word sites : I tried word sites for a year before finding AWAD and AWADtalk. Did not find any as interesting and easy to use and full of such terrific folks as this one. Have no objection to providing them, I will probably check them out and return confirmed in my opinion that the nicest, kindest, most informative, intelligent, and mannerly folks are right here.
An informal chat room? ... Hmmmm.... doesn't the PM option serve that purpose?

Oh! Please! Keep the preview option AND the Thread Mode. I cannot, despite best attemps, follow that "other" option.

Well that's all from this non-techie Threadnodist!
Respectfully submitted by your
High Priestess
wow
Affectionate Aloha to all.


Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 04:28 PM
when you get around to architecting® the 'Edit Profile' section.

I don't know how much "architecturing" will actually happen to AWADtalk except for appearance. That depends on what kind of options came with purchasing the discussion board. Anu didn't write this board, he apparently bought it from a company that makes them, so I don't know how much control he has over it.

As for things I can control, don't worry about me making the page take too long to load, I just have a simple modem as well. I haven't really decided which of the designs I like more yet. With the second one, the box colors can be changed more easily, but the boxes also restrict how much text there is on the front page.

Posted By: AnnaStrophic Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 05:12 PM
wow's suggestion to add Jo's 'helpful hints for newcomers' as a link is a good one -- though many of those hints are included in the FAQs, I don't think all of them are. This brings me to a question:

Jazz & Max, are y'all talking about who will do what and what goes where? I would not want many of the features of Max's page (especially the photographs!) to be added to the AWAD site. Maybe this is obvious to those of you involved, but I wanted to state it, anyway

and further stating the obvious: wow, a chat room is different from PMs in that it is Real Time® - that is, we type as we speak. As it were.

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 05:25 PM
Whether or not the Helpful Hints becomes a part of wordsmith.org is Anu's decision. We don't want to put Max out a job, though. I think it would be at least a good idea to provide a link to Max's site so newcomers can become more acquainted.

I'm not sure if this audience could support both a discussion board and a full-time chatroom. A chatroom would probably tend more toward just talking about the weather and if there were AWADtalk quality discussions, they wouldn't be able to be read by all because they would just pass on in real time.

Posted By: wow Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 06:28 PM
Nearly forgot ... it is obvious but ... keep whatever it is that shows there are new entries in a categoy and the new posts within a category's thread.
Thank you
the boxes also restrict how much text there is on the front page.

This is not a bad thing. Think headlines. David Brinkley once said that anyone conversant in English should be able to reduce any story to seven words. Hmmmm.
Admit it - You'd be bored without a challenge.



Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 06:33 PM
keep whatever it is that shows there are new entries in a categoy and the new posts within a category's thread.

I believe that's a default and we can't (and wouldn't want to anyway) get rid of it. I think Anu is mainly looking for suggestions for the whole of wordsmith.org rather than just the board, of which he has little control.

Posted By: wow Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/23/01 06:44 PM
Anu is mainly looking for suggestions for the whole of wordsmith.org rather than just the board
Oh!


Posted By: Max Quordlepleen - 06/23/01 06:52 PM



Posted By: Sparteye Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/24/01 12:03 AM
I think we need a smilie which I cannot describe as other than the shit-eating grin. :D

Posted By: inselpeter Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/24/01 12:39 PM
Jazz,

Your design is excellent: pleasant to look at, easy to interpret and soothing. I have no trouble reading from the color scheme as interpreted by my box, but I do wonder with Marianna if higher contrast between background color and text might not be helpful for those with vision problems.

Thank you!

Posted By: wow Re: wordsmith.org -- NEW EMOTICONS ? - 06/24/01 02:21 PM
we need a smilie which I cannot describe as other than the shit-eating grin

Good one Sparteye! Very handy, that! As for the raspberry Thwaaaat emoticon, a "picture" of a real raspberry berry shouldn't be too difficult... and when first available should yield some interesting uses!
I'd like an emoticon of a musical note. An eighth to be precise. That's a filled in circle with a stem and a flag.
There is the old request for a Namaste emoticon, remember?
Namaste is a gesture of respect or greeting, or thanks, wherein the hands are placed palm-to-palm and brought to the face so that the thumbs are about at the chin.

Posted By: Jackie Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/24/01 11:52 PM
Dearest Anu,

I have taken time to give this some serious thought. I like the second design much better than the first. I am still of the opinion that having the etymology and quotes on the same page as the word and the definition is better. But--you know, as it stands now, the opening page of Wordsmith.org does not include a word of the day, and the Word A Day mailing does not include an opening page of Wordsmith.org. What about just continuing to keep them separate? Links, of course.

And something else I really, really like about the current opening page of Wordsmith.org is this paragraph:
The music and magic of words -- that's what A.Word.A.Day is all about. This is the Web site for the mailing list A.Word.A.Day (AWAD), which sends a vocabulary word and its definition to the subscribers every day.

It doesn't necessarily have to stay exactly the same, but not only does it give an explanation for the first-timers, it adds that perfect homey touch. It sounds friendly and inviting, and I think will lead folks right on in.

I definitely vote for keeping the creator's picture!!! [starry-eyed grin emoticon]

I don't know that any of these would be appropriate to put as links, but here are two of my favorites, simply because they have so very, very much:
http://www.refdesk.com/
http://www.wolinskyweb.com/word.htm.

I'll also put in another plug for Atomica, even though it does fall short of the OED, because it is SO handy--you don't have to leave the page you're on. It is at least
a decent resource: what it doesn't have, it can google or search the internet, and do maps, and more.
http://www.atomica.com/

Here's the page of AWADtalk where we've listed a bunch of our favorite links:
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=1268

Posted By: tsuwm Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/25/01 01:46 AM
>I definitely vote for keeping the creator's picture!!!

I just have to throw a spanner into the works on this one. I assumed that anu's picture was just a placeholder for whomever the upcoming chat guest was to be (thus the phoney date). correct me if I'm wrong, jazzo!

Posted By: wwh Re: wordsmith.org -- NEW EMOTICONS ? - 06/25/01 12:32 PM
Dear wow: Aren't you asking too much of the programmer, to convey such fine shades of emotion?

Posted By: inselpeter Re: wordsmith.org -- NEW EMOTICONS ? - 06/25/01 01:02 PM
I would like to see a Dr. Bill emoticon to convey heart-warming.

Posted By: tsuwm Re: wordsmith.org -- NEW EMOTICONS ? - 06/25/01 01:11 PM
...and we still need one (desperately) for irony, in the literal sense.

Posted By: Flatlander Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/25/01 01:15 PM
I also prefer the second design -- even cleaner and crisper, but creative and unique. Reminds me of Mondrian and Frank Lloyd Wright. Really well done, Jazzo.

Posted By: wow Re: wordsmith.org -- NEW EMOTICONS ? - 06/25/01 01:17 PM
wow: Aren't you asking too much of the programmer

"Ask and it shall be given unto you ..."

Then, too, I have a great deal of faith in the younger generation's abilities!

Jackie : Your suggestions, as always, capture all that is good about the Board ... I nominate you for the rank of Guiding Light!
Are you listening, O Great and Powerful Anu?




Posted By: Fiberbabe Re: wordsmith.org -- NEW EMOTICONS ? - 06/25/01 03:28 PM
tsuwm reminds us we still need one (desperately) for irony, in the literal sense

Amen! How about one eyebrow raised? That could be useful in many wry ways...

And Jazz - I want to join the legions of your cheerleaders. The summer after I graduated from high school, I worked in a fabric store... you're certainly making more impact on a wider community with your efforts! Thank you!

Posted By: Hyla Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/25/01 03:44 PM
Jazzo - your second look is great also - I'd be happy hanging out at either place.

One tiny little thing - where you have the word of the day, and the more link - perhaps you could put more about today's word?" This may not fit, but something, that makes clear what you're offering more of would be helpful to new visitors to the site.

Posted By: Bobyoungbalt Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/25/01 04:46 PM
Jazz's V.2
Jazz, can't thank you enough for your efforts. While I liked the colors of your first version (I may be a minority here), I like the second version better overall -- I find it much easier to read. Great job.!!

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/25/01 07:45 PM
Tsuwm: I assumed that anu's picture was just a placeholder for whomever the upcoming chat guest was to be (thus the phoney date). correct me if I'm wrong, jazzo!

Yes, this is true, and the little box labelled chat could be used for something else, such as a brief about Anagrams.

Fiberbabe: The summer after I graduated from high school, I worked in a fabric store...

Well, my real jobs are working at a little shaved ice (sno cone type things) business down by the Loveland bike trail and working on the new website for my (former) school district.

Byb: I liked the colors of your first version (I may be a minority here)

If it would be preferred, I could fairly easily incorporate the colors on the first design into the second.

Posted By: Capital Kiwi Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/26/01 04:47 AM
JazzO, Either of the designs is fine by me, especially if I don't have to do anything to instantiate them. Well done.

Posted By: Marianna Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/26/01 07:53 AM
Jazz, I really like the second look. Well done!


Posted By: wow Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 06/26/01 02:28 PM
My vote : the second.
Re Anu's picture : couldn't a thumbnail be put in somewhere...?...in the flag, fer' instance -- after all he IS the Wordmith.

Posted By: musick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/07/01 10:19 PM
Jazz-O - Any updates on what can/can't be done from our collection of suggestions?

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/08/01 03:23 PM
In e-mail Anu confirmed to me that there is little he can change with the board options other than color schemes, so some of the suggestions can't be incorporated. He did, though, think that it would be a good idea to add a section for the helpful hints.

Other than that, we're still collaborating on a design.

Posted By: maverick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/08/01 11:14 PM
Don't know if this lies within the practicable possibilities of the software, but I would DEARLY like a change to the Search capabilities. The trouble is that even when you have located the specific post you were looking for, locating the thread which contains it can be a nightmare since it probably has a different title, and as they are stored only by 'last access' and the info you have from the search function is the 'creation date'.

So what I would like is the addition of a 'view by creation date' for all threads, toggled between this and normal mode. Alternatively, I woud look for extra info with the found material on a Search: tell me what the title of the thread is, not just where it's stored.

As this coming year's coracle of chat slides over the Niagara Falls of verbiage, this ability to dig out reference to previous discussions with greater ease will become more important, I think.


EDIT: Do'h! Just realised for the first time that I can achieve what I want, by opening the post after the search, then clicking on the toggle to flat-mode display. Sometimes even just asking the question makes the brain actually work!
Posted By: wwh Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/08/01 11:59 PM
I have mentioned previously that it would be very nice to access to past sent PMs, to avoid embarrassing inability to recall what I said to whom. Also I suspect that I am not the only one ignorant about some of the terminology used about threads, flat vs threaded, causes of "wide screen syndrome" etc. A discussion of these topics ought be included in instructions for inexperienced members.I remind myself of the poor soul turned down for promotion because he had had one year's experience twenty times.

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 08:01 PM
Ok, blokes, we've got a couple more designs to look at. Anu wants to possibly implement the new design on July 20.

Here's what we have so far:

1: http://home.att.net/~lovelandjazz/wordsmith/index.html
The first one I showed you. Ten images on front page.

2, b: http://home.att.net/~lovelandjazz/wordsmith/index2.html
This is a modification on the second one, now in HTML format. It incorporates some of the suggestions made here. My favorite so far. Six images on front page.

3: http://home.att.net/~lovelandjazz/wordsmith/anu.html
This one was made by Anu with coloration and a few changes made by me. Fastest load time. One image on front page (a 1x1 pixel for spacing purposes.)

Now we just wait for comment from Anu

Posted By: maverick Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 08:13 PM
Yes, that third option is also very cool and relaxed. Great work.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 08:14 PM
i kinda like the last one, particularly because there's no reference to this board being a "chat" room, since it's clearly denoted as a "Bulletin Board". perhaps i've just run into a few weird places, but (heh, i'm realizing the hypocrisy of this as i type, given the prurient nature of some recent threads) it seems like whenever you throw out the word CHAT to the general public, they get a distinctly different impression than that which we'd probably want to have as our draw (those of you who've visited the mlive site may know what i'm getting at; i always feel a strange compulsion to wash my hands after i've passed through that open forum on my way into the nice safe AWAD room ). the way the third option is set up, folks looking for 'singles chat' will likely click on AWADchat and find it empty, and only those looking to post queries and such might venture here.

i like all of the layouts, in different ways, though. great job, and applause to both you and our Beloved Anu.

just my thoughts

Posted By: nancyk Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 09:03 PM
Jazzo- The second version is my favorite also, although I could certainly live with No. 3. I look forward to the New Look, whatever the final decision. Congrats on some very fine work!

Caradea- I couldn't agree more about mlive, from the first time I signed up and the notice appeared that someone-or-other was "checking my profile." Felt kind of sleazy . Nor sure, however, I get your point about the Board being referred to as a "chat" room on the earlier versions - All 3 include both AWADtalk and AWADchat but none calls AWADtalk a chat room - or did you mean just because the latest version actually uses the term "bulletin board," leaving no room for misinterpretation?

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 09:12 PM
reference to this board being a "chat" room

I don't really see this reference you're talking about, but the little blurbs in #2b can be changed to say something more desirable, if you'd like. Also, when there isn't a scheduled chat the box could be changed so say something about Anagrams, or some other feature.

Also, I didn't mention in my last post, all of the colors in #2b are browser compliant hi OT! and because I used basically the same colors in #3, those are as well. I also think these colors will fit with the board better.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 09:20 PM
or did you mean just because the latest version actually uses the term "bulletin board," leaving no room for misinterpretation?

Yes, that's precisely what i meant. i was completely unclear in my ramblings.

Sorry 'bout that; i'm hopelessly distracted today


Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 09:35 PM
Here's an example of what it might look like when anagrams are featured instead of a Chat:
http://home.att.net/~lovelandjazz/wordsmith/index3.html

Or at least it will be in a little bit. It seems to take a while to upload.

Posted By: Max Quordlepleen - 07/13/01 10:30 PM
Posted By: wow Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 10:41 PM
Really like the last one, JazzO.
Have one reservation : about the word "Chat." It has developed a pejorative connotation in Cyberworld. Could it be changed? Perhaps to "Interviews?" (asketh the former reporter? As that is really what it is, an interview, except that instead of one reporter the members are the interviewers/reporters and Anu the Editor. Whadda ya think?)


Posted By: Anonymous Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/13/01 10:59 PM
*yes*, wow... i think something like LiveTalk would perhaps be more descriptive. i've always thought the names AWADtalk and AWADchat seem almost reversed; it always takes me a second to figure out which one to click on when i'm heading to the Board.

Posted By: Jazzoctopus Re: The ever-evolving wordsmith.org - 07/14/01 05:40 PM
Could it be changed?

How 'bout "Moderated Chat"?

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