Wordsmith.org
Posted By: wwh P - 07/26/02 03:45 PM
P This letter is a rude outline of a man's mouth, the upright being the neck. In Hebrew it is called pe (the
mouth).

Damned if I see the resemblance.

Posted By: wwh Re: Pabane - 07/26/02 03:53 PM
Pabana (The) or Peacock Dance. A grave and stately Spanish dance, so called from the manner in which
the lady held up her skirt during the performance.

From this we get "pavane" as in DeBussy "Pavane pour une enfante défunte".

Posted By: wwh Re: Pagan - 07/26/02 03:57 PM
Pagan properly means “belonging to a village” (Latin, pagus). The Christian Church fixed itself first in
cities, the centres of intelligence. Long after it had been established in towns, idolatrous practices
continued to be observed in rural districts and villages, so pagan and villager came to mean the same
thing. (See Heathen. )

Posted By: wwh Re: Pagoda - 07/26/02 04:02 PM
Pagoda A temple in China, Hindustan, etc. (Hindustanee, boot-khuda, abode of God; Persian, put-gada,
idol-house; Spanish, pagoda.)

Limerick: There was a young lady named Rhoda
Who dwelt in a Chines pagoda
The walls and the halls
Were festooned with....................

Posted By: wwh Re: Pal - 07/26/02 04:05 PM
Pal A gipsy-word, meaning a brother, or companion.


Posted By: wwh Re: Palace - 07/26/02 04:06 PM
Palace originally meant a dwelling on the Palatine Hill of Rome. This hill was so called from Pales, a
pastoral deity,

Posted By: wwh Re: Palaver - 07/26/02 04:10 PM
Palaver comes from the Portuguese

Posted By: Wordwind Re: P - 07/26/02 04:17 PM
P This letter is a rude outline of a man's mouth, the upright being the neck. In Hebrew it is called pe (the
mouth).

Damned if I see the resemblance.


...says Bill. Just think Alfred Hitchcock and I think you'll see it. It looks like he's "P" for "pouting" to me.

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Palace - 07/26/02 04:19 PM
Odd to think of the pastoral deity moved into a palace, of all things. So far removed from what we think of as pastoral, huh? Guess that's what happens when the country moves to the city and gets all uppity.

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Palaver - 07/26/02 04:21 PM
Palaver comes from the Portuguese to mean what? To talk? Isn't that what palavering is? Oh, maybe it's the conversation of those gypsy pals, Dr. Bill. Palavering pals in a pastoral palace. Odd thread, this one...

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Pabane - 07/26/02 04:23 PM
Debussy's "Pavane" is an eloquent, exquisite work to hear played at a funeral or memorial service, especially the arrangement for viola.

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Pagan - 07/26/02 04:25 PM
So, from what you wrote about the idolatrous practices continuing in the villages, are we to understand that they didn't take place in the cities? Sounds fishy to me...

Posted By: wwh Re: Palestrina - 07/26/02 04:25 PM
Palestra (3 syl.). Either the act of wrestling, etc., or the place in which the Grecian youths practised
athletic exercises. (Greek, pale, wrestling.)

Palestrina or Pelestrina. An island nearly south of Venice, noted for its glass-houses.
Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina, called “The Prince of Music.” (1529-1594.)

Posted By: wwh Re: Palimpsest - 07/26/02 04:29 PM
Palimpsest A parchment on which the original writing has been effaced, and something else has been
written. (Greek, palin, again; psao, I rub or efface.) When parchment was not supplied in sufficient
quantities, the monks and others used to wash or rub out the writing in a parchment and use it again. As
they did not wash or rub it out entirely, many works have been recovered by modern ingenuity. Thus
Cicero's De Republica has been restored; it was partially erased to make room for a commentary of St.
Augustine on the Psalms. Of course St. Augustine's commentary was first copied, then erased from the
parchment, and the original MS. of Cicero made its appearance.

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Palestrina - 07/26/02 04:31 PM
Palestra: Pale wrestling? How odd. Did they wrestle till they died? Did they keep the wrestlers out of the sun? I don't get it, Dr. Bill.

Have you noticed I'm trying to keep up with you here?

"P" for Pest regards,
Wordwind

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Palimpsest - 07/26/02 04:34 PM
Was the palimpsest over Cicero the entire "Republic?" No one must have thought much of it--haha!--if the entire thing was written over!

Posted By: wwh Re: Palliate - 07/26/02 04:36 PM
Palliate (3 syl.) means simply to cloak. (Latin, pallium, a cloak.)

Posted By: wwh Re: Palmer - 07/26/02 04:39 PM
Palmer A pilgrim privileged to carry a palm-staff: In Fosbroke's British Monachism we read that “certain
prayers and psalms being said over the pilgrims, as they lay prostrate before the altar, they were sprinkled
with holy water, and received a consecrated palm-staff. Palmers differed from pilgrims in this respect: a
pilgrim made his pilgrimage and returned to public or private life; but a palmer spent all his days in visiting
holy shrines, and lived on charity.

Posted By: TheFallibleFiend Greek Wrestling - 07/26/02 04:42 PM
Puh puh puh Pee is a fine letter, Bill.

Pankration was an ancient Greek wrestling form.

I think there are probably still people who practice it.
I wouldn't be suprised if there are people in the Vale Tudo
or NHB (No Holds Barred) competitions who are trained in it.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Olympics/pankration.html


http://worldpankration.homestead.com/


http://www.channel1.com/pankration/terms/index.htm


http://www.chez.com/pancrace/




k


Posted By: wwh Re: Pamphlet - 07/26/02 04:43 PM
Pamphlet said to be from Pamphila, a Greek lady, whose chief work is a commonplace book of
anecdotes, epitomes, notes, etc. Dr. Johnson suggests par-un-filet (held “by a thread”)- i.e. stitched, but
not bound; another derivation is paginae filatae (pages tacked together). It was anciently written
panfletus, pamflete, and by Caxton paunflet.

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Palliate - 07/26/02 04:47 PM
I actually used pallia in a poem way back in November, Dr. Bill. I believe pallia were worn by high-ranking Romans. Not sure, but think so...

Didn't know the verb, however, "to cloak." Thanks for that. I don't think anybody uses palliate meaning to cloak today...

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Palmer - 07/26/02 04:50 PM
How odd that we hear so often of the pilgrims, but not of the palmers.

My dentist is Dr. Palmer, but he doesn't live off charity, I'll tell you that!

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Pamphlet - 07/26/02 04:53 PM
Emily stitched her poems together, so she's a sister of sorts of this Greek lady Pamphila....

Posted By: Wordwind Passing Go - 07/26/02 04:58 PM
Dear Dr. Bill,

I'll be back in a little while to see what else you've "p" for "pleased" us with. Have to defrag my computer some more. It takes hours to completely defrag a computer.

Please don't forget:

pusillanimous
parsimonious
prestidigitation
piffle

Posted By: Fiberbabe Re: Pallia - 07/26/02 07:41 PM
Just for you, WW, more than you ever wanted to know about pallia (for women)/pallium (for men). Not any sort of specialized garment, just made of different qualities for people of different ranks. It's a pretty standard piece.

http://www.ku.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Pallium.html

Posted By: wwh Re: Piffle - 07/26/02 08:02 PM
Dear WW: You don't know what a piffle can be until you read this:

http://www.mbay.net/~jmd/1601.html

Posted By: Wordwind Re: Pallia - 07/26/02 08:06 PM
Fiberbabe:

Thanks for much for that article. I read it to the end and, according to the article, the more elite Romans didn't want to wear the pallium at all and thought it to be somewhat barbaric and--ha!--Greek. They preferred togas as a mark of distinction.

Pallium used as: cloak, horse blanket, curtains, blanket to lay you down at night, even--biggest surprise--sails on a boat! The remarkable, wonderful pallium.

Thanks again for one terrific article.

WW

Posted By: wwh Re: Parasite - 07/27/02 05:03 PM
Parasite (Greek, para sitos, eating at another's cost). A plant or animal that lives on another; hence a
hanger-on, who fawns and flatters for the sake of his food.

Posted By: wwh Re: Parlance - 07/27/02 05:09 PM
Parlance In common parlance. In the usual or vulgar phraseology. An English-French word; the French
have parler, parlant, parlage, etc.- to speak, speaking, talk- but not parlance.


Posted By: wwh Re: Parlement - 07/27/02 05:10 PM
Parlement (French). A crown court, where, in the old régime, councillors were allowed to plead, and
where justice was administered in the king's name. The Paris Parlement received appeals from all inferior
tribunals, but its own judgments were final. It took cognisance of all offences against the crown, the
peers, the bishops, the corporations, and all high officers of state; and, though it had no legislative power,
had to register the royal edicts before they could become law. Abolished by the Constituent Assembly in
1790.

Posted By: wwh Re:Parliament - 07/27/02 05:12 PM
Parliament

“My Lord Coke tells us Parliament is derived from `parler le ment' (to speak one's mind). He
might as honestly have taught us that firmament is `firma mentis' (a farm for the mind) or
`fundament' the bottom of the mind.”- Rymer: On Parliaments.

Posted By: wwh Re:Parody - 07/27/02 05:17 PM
Parody Father of Parody. Hippomax of Ephesus, The word parody means an ode which perverts the
meaning of another ode. (Greek, para ode.)

Posted By: wwh Re:Parole - 07/27/02 05:18 PM
Parole (French). A verbal promise given by a soldier or prisoner of war, that he will not abuse his leave
of absence; the watchword of the day.

Posted By: wwh Re:Parson - 07/27/02 05:22 PM
Parson says Blackstone, is “persona ecclesiae, one that hath full rights of the parochial church.” (See
Clerical Titles.)

Posted By: wwh Re:Parvenue - 07/27/02 05:28 PM
Parvenu' (French). An upstart; one who has risen from the ranks.

Posted By: Jackie Re: Pallia - 07/28/02 12:28 AM
Pertinacious pundits palaver pending palpable pandering; pixilated parlance perishes particularly; pedagogic paragons paradoxically propose parataxis. Percipiently, peripatetic protesters placatingly promote pulchritudinous protocol, provoking parallel perspicacity. Pandemonium plummets, persuading pious patriarchal personalities precarious pontificating protects. Prosaic peace prevails.

Posted By: wwh Re: Pallia - 07/28/02 01:22 AM
What, no paradiddle?

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re: Pallia - 07/28/02 01:57 AM
percussionists, precariously perched, practice paradiddles...

pa-ra-did-dle, pa-ra-did-dle, pa-ra-did-dle, pa-ra-did-dle...

Posted By: wwh Re: Patina - 07/28/02 04:20 PM
Patina A beautiful surface deposit or fine rust, with which, in time, buried coins and bronzes become
covered. It is at once preservative and ornamental, and may be seen to advantage in the ancient bronzes
of Pompeii. (Greek, patane, a paten.)

Notice Brewer calls it "rust". Reminds me of joke about magician who brought statue of
Civil War general to life, and asked what was the first thing he was going to do.
"Shoot a million pigeons," said the general.

Posted By: wwh Re:St. Patrick - 07/28/02 04:24 PM
St. Patrick's real name was Succat, changed first into Cothraige, then to Magonus, and afterwards (on
his ordination) to Patricius.

Posted By: wwh Re:Perfume - 07/28/02 05:21 PM
erfume (2 syl.) means simply “from smoke” (Latin, per fumum), the first perfumes having been
obtained by the combustion of aromatic woods and gums. Their original use was in sacrifices, to
counteract the offensive odours of the burning flesh.

Posted By: Jackie Re:Perfume - 07/29/02 11:30 AM
Perfume = from smoke? Holy cow, that's almost too simple! Does perchance, then mean from (by) sheer luck? What about perhaps: from happenstance?

Posted By: Wordwind Re:Perfume - 07/29/02 11:48 AM
Good thinkin', Jackie.

wwh: Interesting that note about counteracting the smell of burning flesh. But from my reading of the Old Testament, it's stated somewhere in there that the sacrifices of the animals--their burning thereof--was to have been fragrant and pleasing to God.

I take it the "flesh" of your reference was not that of animals roasted, but perhaps (gasp) human?

Grotesque topic, but I must ask....

WW

Posted By: wwh Re:Perfume - 07/29/02 01:06 PM
The idea that God should enjoy the smell of burnt flesh seems
close to blasphemy to me. How stupid to think God eats flesh
or needs a nose or teeth,Or any other human attribute.

Posted By: wwh Re:Peripatetic - 07/29/02 02:52 PM
Peripatetics Founder of the Peripatetics - Aristotle, who used to teach his disciples in the covered walk
of the Lyceum. This colonnade was called the peripatos, because it was a place for walking about (peri
pateo).


Posted By: wwh Re:Periwinkle - 07/29/02 02:56 PM
Periwinkle The bind-around plant. (Anglo-Saxon, pinewincle; French, pervenche; Latin, pervincio, to
bind thoroughly.) In Italy it used to be wreathed round dead infants, and hence its Italian name, fior di
morto.

I wonder how in the world the same word refers to the very common small snails see at the seashore.

Posted By: wwh Re:Perk - 07/29/02 02:59 PM
Perk To perk oneself. To plume oneself on anything. (Welsh, percu, to smarten or plume feathers, perc,
neat.)



Posted By: wwh Re:Permian - 07/29/02 03:02 PM
Permian Strata So called from Perm, in Russia, where they are most distinctly developed.

Geology term. It can be very hard to discover how some of these terms arose.

Posted By: wwh Re:Perth - 07/29/02 03:07 PM
Perth is Celtic for a bush. The county of Perth is the county of bushes.

Posted By: wwh Re:Quinine - 07/29/02 03:13 PM
Peruvian Bark called also Jesuit's Bark, because it was introduced into Spain by the Jesuits. “Quinine,”
from the same tree, is called by the Indians quinquina. (See Cinchona.)

Formerly a valuable botanical for treatment of malaria. Now of little use. A formerly popular
carbonated beverage, Moxie contained it. Horrid tasting. Once in a while "to have lots of
Mozie" meaning to be arrogant may still be heard in of troy's bailiwick.

Posted By: wwh Re:Petard - 07/29/02 03:17 PM
Petard' Hoist on his own petard. Caught in his own trap, involved in the danger he meant for others.
The petard was a conical instrument of war employed at one time for blowing open gates with
gunpowder. The engineers used to carry the petard to the place they intended to blow up, and fire it at the
small end by a fusee. Shakespeare spells the word petar. “'Tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with
his own petar.” (Hamlet, ii. 4.)

If externalized borborrymi amuse you, look up "Le Petomane"/

Posted By: wwh Re:Peter - 07/29/02 03:20 PM
Blue Peter:
Blue Peter A flag with a blue ground and white square in the centre, hoisted as a signal that the ship is
about to sail. Peter is a corruption of the French partir (leave or notice of departure). The flag is hoisted
to give notice to the town that any person having a money-claim may make it before the ship starts, and
that all about to sail are to come on board.

Posted By: wwh Re:Blue Stocking - 07/29/02 03:24 PM
Blue Stocking A female pedant. In 1400 a society of ladies and gentlemen was formed at Venice,
distinguished by the colour of their stockings, and called della calza. It lasted till 1590, when it appeared
in Paris and was the rage among the lady savantes. From France it came to England in 1780, when Mrs.
Montague displayed the badge of the Bas-bleu club at her evening assemblies. Mr. Benjamin Stillingfleet
was a constant attendant of the soirées. The last of the clique was Miss Monckton, afterwards Countess
of Cork, who died 1840.

Posted By: wwh Re:Blue Talk - 07/29/02 03:26 PM
Blue Talk Indecent conversation, from the French, Bibliothèque Bleu. (Harlots are called “Blues” from
the blue gown they were once compelled to wear in the House of Correction.)

Blue movies is euphemism for pornographic movies.

Posted By: wwh Re: Blunderbuss - 07/29/02 03:29 PM
Blunderbuss A short gun with a large bore. (Dutch, donderbus, a thunder-tube.)


Posted By: wwh Re: Peter the Great - 07/29/02 03:36 PM
Peter the Great of Russia built St. Petersburg, and gave Russia a place among the nations of Europe. He
laid aside his crown and sceptre, came to England, and worked as a common labourer in our dockyards,
that he might teach his subjects how to build ships.


Posted By: wwh Re:Beg the Question - 07/29/02 03:39 PM
Petitio Principii (A). A begging of the question, or assuming in the premises the question you undertake
to prove. Thus, if a person undertook to prove the infallibility of the pope, and were to take for his
premises- (1) Jesus Christ promised to keep the apostles and their successors in all the truth; (2) the popes
are the regular successors of the apostles, and therefore the popes are infallible- it would be a vicious
syllogism from a petitio principii.

Posted By: wwh Re:Petrel - 07/29/02 03:41 PM
Petrel The stormy petrel. So named, according to tradition, from the Italian Petrello (little Peter), in
allusion to St. Peter, who walked on the sea. Our sailors call them “Mother Carey's chickens.” They are
called stormy because in a gale they surround a ship to catch small animals which rise to the surface of the
rough sea; when the gale ceases they are no longer seen.


Posted By: wwh Re:In petto - 07/29/02 03:43 PM
Petto It petto. In secrecy, in reserve (Italian, in the breast). The pope creates cardinals in petto - i.e. in
his own mind- and keeps the appointment to himself till he thinks proper to announce it.

Posted By: dxb Re:Petrel - 07/29/02 03:54 PM
Why Mother Carey's chickens? I have heard this but never understood it.

dxb

Posted By: wwh Re:Mother Carey's chickens - 07/29/02 04:14 PM
Here's a URL about Mother Carey's Chickens:

http://www.neseabirds.com/stormpetrels.htm

Posted By: Fiberbabe Re: Moxie (also moxy) - 07/29/02 09:42 PM
Hey, Dr Bill - not just in of troy's neighborhood! The local coffee chain providing competition to the insurgent Starbucks cult in Boise, Idaho was called Moxie Java, and they made a mean mocha.

Additionally, I've mentioned the Canadian band Moxy Fruvous here before... besides, it's one of those words I like to *work* at getting into conversation!

Posted By: Fiberbabe Re:Blue Talk - 07/29/02 09:48 PM
And in the theatre, the color blue takes on two meanings... "going blue" is used to mean speaking profanity on stage, depending on the perceived receptivity of the audience. Not advisable to go blue if you've got an elementary school group in attendance, or a bunch of nuns. Neither is it a good idea to go blue if it's a Sunday matinee show, typically the "blue-hair crowd".

Posted By: wwh Re:Blue Talk - 07/29/02 09:52 PM
Neither is it a good idea to go blue if it's a Sunday matinee show, typically the
"blue-hair crowd".
Not even if they wear blue merkins.


Posted By: wwh Re:Phalanx - 07/30/02 04:14 PM
Phalanx The close order of battle in which the heavy-armed troops of a Grecian army were usually
drawn up. Hence, any number of people distinguished for firmness and solidity of union.

I have read that Philip of Macedon devised special tactic of equipping phalanx with extra
length heavy spears, so that when they charged enemy with only shields and swords
could not withstand their charge.

Anatomy: bones beneath palm, between wrist and fingers. Pl. phalanges.


Posted By: wwh Re:Pharisees - 07/30/02 04:20 PM
Pharisees means “separatists” (Heb. parash, to separate), men who looked upon themselves as holier
than other men, and therefore refused to hold social intercourse with them.

Posted By: wwh Re:Pharos - 07/30/02 04:21 PM
Pharos A lighthouse; so called from the lighthouse built by Sostratus Cnidius in the island of Pharos, near
the port of Alexandria, in Egypt. It was 450 feet high, and could be seen at the distance of 100 miles. Part
was blown down in 793. This Pharos was one of the Seven Wonders of the World.


Posted By: wwh Re:Pharsalia - 07/30/02 04:23 PM
Pharsalia An epic in Latin hexameters by Lucan. The battle of Pharsalia was between Pompey and
Cæsar. Pompey had 45,000 legionaries, 7,000 cavalry, and a large number of auxiliaries; Cæsar had
22,000 legionaries and 1,000 cavalry. Pompey's battle-cry was “Hercules invictus; ” that of Cæsar was
“Venus victrix. ” On this occasion Cæsar won the battle.

Posted By: wwh Re:Pheasant - 07/30/02 04:25 PM
Pheasant So called from Phasis, a stream of the Black Sea.

“There was formerly at the fort of Poti a preserve of pheasants, which birds derive their
European name from the river Phasis (the present Rion).”- Lieut-General Monteith.

Posted By: wwh Re:Phebe - 07/30/02 04:29 PM
Phebe (2 syl.). A shepherdess.

Also "phoebe" a bird's name, and also a girl's name. I think the bird was so named
because of its cry.

Posted By: wwh Re: phenomenon - 07/30/02 04:31 PM
Phenomenon (plural, phenomena) means simply what has appeared (Greek, phainomai, to appear). It is
used in science to express the visible result of an experiment. In popular language it means a prodigy.
(Greek, phainomenon.)

Posted By: wwh Re:Philippic - 07/30/02 04:36 PM
Philippic A severs scolding; an invective. So called from the orations of Demosthenes against Philip of
Macedon, to rouse the Athenians to resist his encroachments. The orations of Cicero against Anthony are
called “Philippies.”

Posted By: wwh Re: Philistines - 07/30/02 04:38 PM
Philistines meaning the ill-behaved and ignorant. The word so applied arose in Germany from the
Charlies or Philisters, who were in everlasting collision with the students; and in these “town and gown
rows” identified themselves with the town, called in our universities “the snobs.” Matthew Arnold, in the
Cornhill Magazine, applied the term Philistine to the middle class, which he says is “ignorant,
narrow-minded, and deficient in great ideas,” insomuch that the middle-class English are objects of
contempt in the eyes of foreigners.

Posted By: wwh Re: Philosopher's Stone - 07/30/02 04:41 PM
Philosopher's Stone The way to wealth. The ancient alchemists thought there was a substance which
would convert all baser metals into gold. This substance they called the philosopher's stone. Here the
word stone is about equal to the word substratum, which is compounded of the Latin sub and stratus
(spread-under), the latter being related to the verb stand, stood, and meaning something on which the
experiment stands. It was, in fact, a red powder or amalgam to drive off the impurities of baser metals.
(Stone, Saxon, stán.)
Philosopher's stone. According to legend, Noah was commanded to hang up the true and genuine
philosopher's stone in the ark, to give light to every living creature therein.
Inventions discovered in searching for the philosopher's stone. It was in searching for this treasure
that Boticher stumbled on the invention of Dresden porcelain manufacture; Roger Bacon on the
composition of gunpowder; Geber on the properties of acids; Van Helmont on the nature of gas; and Dr.
Glauber on the “salts” which bear his name.

And now we have Harry Potter.

Posted By: wwh Re: philters - 07/30/02 04:48 PM
Philter (A). A draught or charm to incite in another the passion of love. The Thessalian philters were the
most renowned, but both the Greeks and Romans used these dangerous potions, which sometimes
produced insanity. Lucretius is said to have been driven mad by a love-potion, and Caligula's death is
attributed to some philters

More Harry Potter.

Posted By: wwh Re: Phoenix - 07/30/02 04:51 PM
Phoenix Said to live a certain number of years, when it makes in Arabia a nest of spices, sings a
melodious dirge, flaps his wings to set fire to the pile, burns itself to ashes, and comes forth with new life,
to repeat the former one

Posted By: wwh Re: Phylactery - 07/30/02 04:55 PM
Phylactery A charm or amulet. The Jews wore on their wrist or forehead a slip of parchment bearing a
text of Scripture. Strictly speaking, a phylactery consisted of four pieces of parchment, enclosed in two
black leather cases, and fastened to the forehead or wrist of the left hand. One case contained Ex. xiii.
1-10, 11-16; and the other case Deut. vi. 4-9, xi. 13-21. The idea arose from the command of Moses,
“Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart ... and bind them for a sign upon your hand ... as
frontlets between your eyes” (Deut. xi. 18). (Greek, phylacterion, from the verb phylasso to watch.)


Posted By: wwh Re: picnic - 07/30/02 04:58 PM
Pic-nic Dr. John Anthony derives it from the Italian piccola nicchia (a small task), each person being set
a small task towards the general entertainment. (French, pique-nique.)
The modern custom dates from 1802, but picnics, called eranot, where each person contributed
something, and one was appointed “master of the feast,” are mentioned by Homer, in his Odyssey, i. 226.


Posted By: wwh Re: picador - 07/30/02 05:00 PM
Picador (Spanish). A horseman; one who in bull fights is armed with a gilt spear (pica-dorada), with
which he pricks the bull to madden him for the combat.


Posted By: wwh Re: Piccadilly - 07/30/02 05:03 PM
Piccadilly (London). So called from Piccadilla Hall, the chief depôt of a certain sort of lace, much in
vogue during the reign of Queen Elizabeth. The lace was called piccadilly lace, from its little spear-points
(a diminutive of pica, a pike or spear). In the reign of James I. the high ruff was called a piccadilly,
though divested of its lace edging. Barnaby Rice, speaking of the piccadillies, says- “He that some forty
years sithen should have asked after a piccadilly, I wonder who would have understood him, and would
have told him whether it was fish or flesh” (1614). Another derivation is given in the Glossographia
(1681). Piccadilly, we are there told, was named from Higgins' famous ordinary near St. James's, called
Higgins's Pickadilly, “because he made his money by selling piccadillies” (p. 495). (See also Hone:
Everyday Book, vol. ii. p. 381.)

Posted By: Hyla Re: picador - 07/30/02 05:25 PM
Picador (Spanish). A horseman; one who in bull fights is armed with a gilt spear (pica-dorada), with which he pricks the bull to madden him for the combat.

This is a very nice, fancy etymology, but it's a bit baroque. The spanish word picar means "to prick" or "to puncture" (or lots of related poking verbs - it's also related to the word pike, the long spear used by infantry against cavalry), so someone who tortures the bull this way would be a picador - an ugly translation of which might be "pricker." So I have my doubts about the golden pike suggested in this etymology.

Posted By: wwh Re: picador - 07/30/02 06:55 PM
Dear Hyla: Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable from which the quotations are
taken is over a hundred years old. So the obsolescence of some of the definitions
is actually a bit interesting.
And an important part of picador's job is to take a bit of steam out of the bull, to
make matador's job a bit less perilous. Without overdoing it, of course.

Toreador, Oh don't spit on the floor, Oh, use the cuspidor, that's what it's for, Oh.

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Palliate - 07/31/02 10:59 AM
I don't think anybody uses palliate meaning to cloak today

Is this the same root for "palliative" remedies? Don't quite understand the connection if so.

Posted By: FishonaBike Re:Quinine - 07/31/02 11:08 AM
Now of little use. A formerly popular
carbonated beverage, Moxie contained it


So is Moxie the USn term for what we call Tonic Water (once Indian Tonic), Bill ?

Gin & Tonic (G&T) ain't my favourite tipple, but a great many Brits would dispute Tonic's "uselessness".

Posted By: FishonaBike Re:Perfume/Sacrifice - 07/31/02 11:42 AM
the sacrifices of the animals--their burning thereof--was to have been fragrant and pleasing to God

Yes, but even better with a few spices thrown in, perhaps!

Dunno, WW, I expect the idea of the smell being pleasant to God is an overlay, a reasoning after the fact to explain an ancient rite.

I feel that the essence of sacrifice is giving up something rather than giving that thing to someone.
Effectively it's putting the sacrificed object (or deed) in a heavenly bank account, and there's similarly a hope for some interest at a later date when "what goes around comes around".

Modern-day acts of charity aren't as far removed as we may like to think.



Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Philistines - 07/31/02 11:56 AM
Philistines meaning the ill-behaved and ignorant. The word so applied arose in Germany from the
Charlies or Philisters


May well be, but Philistines were also residents of ancient Philistia (part of Palestine). This invites an unfortunate confusion of meanings, especially as the Bible doesn't give them a very good press.

Posted By: FishonaBike Re:Phoebe - 07/31/02 12:01 PM
Also "phoebe" a bird's name, and also a girl's name. I think the bird was so named
because of its cry


My first association with Phoebe (my daughter's name, incidentally) is with the Moon Goddess:
http://quarles.unbc.edu/midsummer/myth.html#PHOEBE

Posted By: FishonaBike Re: Pagan - 07/31/02 12:15 PM
from what you wrote about the idolatrous practices continuing in the villages, are we to understand that they didn't take place in the cities? Sounds fishy to me...

Saw a documentary last night about the first city/ies, and how rigidly behaviour had to be codified to enable people to live so close together. Before "settling down" people could just wander off and do their own thing if they didn't like their neighbours. Once they have a fixed abode and vested interests, everything changes.

Suppose pagans and heathens also include nomads, but a small community (village) would still have more freedom than a large community (town/city). I suspect the restrictiveness of a community (its dependence on rules) would be quite closely related to the amount of space available to an average individual within that community.


Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re:Quinine - 07/31/02 12:25 PM
In reply to:

So is Moxie the USn term for what we call Tonic Water (once Indian Tonic), Bill ?


actually, Moxie® is a sasparilla flavored drink(well, that's what I would call it), and definitely an aquired taste!

http://www.xensei.com/users/iraseski/

worth going here just to hear the jingle!

Posted By: wwh Re:Quinine - 07/31/02 01:19 PM
Dear etaoin: Moxie may now be flavored with sarsaparilla, but the original was so bitter
with quinine it was genuinely nasty until you believed the claims that it had ;health benefits.

Posted By: Buffalo Shrdlu Re:Quinine - 07/31/02 01:53 PM
hehe. I was on a root beer/creme soda kick the other week, and thought I'd try a Moxie. yikes! still pretty bitter!!

Posted By: wwh Re:Quinine - 07/31/02 02:55 PM
Dear etaoin: I thought you had a lot of moxie.

Posted By: dxb Re:Mother Carey's chickens - 07/31/02 04:26 PM
Dear wwh,

Thanks for the link to Storm Petrels with the explanation of Mother Carey's chickens. Trouble is it leaves me wondering "Why Mater Cara's chickens?". But I am one move forward and will pursue further.

dxb

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